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AIBU?

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Original poster

Angel kidnapping

171 replies

WorkHardPlayHard1 · 22/02/2022 08:35

AIBU to be sick to the back teeth by this crime and the lenient sentences.

What can we do to change the law, the sentence and what to do with proven controlling members of society?

He is gonna come out and do the same no doubt. How can we stop this before it happens to womenkind again?

news.sky.com/story/amp/angel-lynn-family-of-teenager-who-was-thrown-out-of-van-call-for-tougher-sentences-for-her-kidnappers-12542792

Come on ladies, if this was the judge's daughter would this even happen?? I can't comprehend why the sentences are so lenient??

OP posts:
SartresSoul · 22/02/2022 13:03

The abduction is bad enough but the fact she is now likely permanently brain damaged means this should be a charge of attempted murder. Seven years is not enough but it’s a usual sentence for manslaughter even when a person has been killed in the most horrific manner. My Aunt was murdered in the late 90s, she had her throat slit by her boyfriend during an argument and was left to bleed to death. The boyfriend was given an 8 year sentence for manslaughter because he didn’t preplan slitting her throat. He was out after 4 years.

Amnotamug · 22/02/2022 13:03

Absolutely sickening…that beautiful girl had her life ripped away and that scum is still breathing.

WonderfulYou · 22/02/2022 13:03

She was either pushed.
Or she jumped at she feared for her life.

Surely either should be classed as attempted murder!

What was he planning on doing to her if she hadn’t jumped/been pushed - I very much doubt he would have been nice and returned her safely.

WonderfulYou · 22/02/2022 13:04

The boyfriend was given an 8 year sentence for manslaughter because he didn’t preplan slitting her throat. He was out after 4 years.

That’s disgusting!

Febrier · 22/02/2022 13:04

I don't know what to write. I feel shocked and angry and upset. And part of me feels scared.

Lockheart · 22/02/2022 13:05

[quote HeadPain]**@Lockheart* "The judges rationale for the sentence passed down will be scrutinised and the AG office will decide whether or not their logic was appropriate."*

And then what happens if they decide it was not appropriate? (If you don't mind answering)[/quote]
Then the AG will send the case to the Court of Appeal, and that will either leave the sentence as it is or alter it as appropriate.

Aprilx · 22/02/2022 13:06

@picklemewalnuts

The prosecutor said she was pushed. The jury didn't think it was beyond reasonable doubt.

Also, she chose to be in the van with him shortly before, she got out after a row. It's appalling, but it's not the stranger/stalker abduction it initially looked like.

I think ^^ explains why it isn't a higher sentence. I don't agree with it, but I can see why it happened. I agree, he effectively killed her. It's appalling.

Unbelievable isn’t it. Are we not allowed to get out of cars and vans without our masters permission now. 😡
Thatsplentyjack · 22/02/2022 13:07

@Lockheart and a lot of the time they don't serve the full sentence.

WeAreTheHeroes · 22/02/2022 13:07

She was either pushed.
Or she jumped at she feared for her life.

Or did she fall out because the door wasn't properly shut? I haven't seen or heard the evidence presented in court so it's impossible to know.

Lockheart · 22/02/2022 13:09

For everyone saying "it is murder, why wasn't he tried for murder / attempted murder":

The greater the crime, the greater the burden of proof on the prosecutor. You would need to prove an intent to kill beyond reasonable doubt and remember, "oh it's obvious he didn't have good intentions" is not proof.

They were already unable to secure a conviction of grievous bodily harm.

If they had tried him for murder and NOT kidnap etc, odds are he would have walked away a free man and would not be in prison now.

As it was, they tried him for crimes they knew they could prove beyond reasonable doubt. And he is now in prison.

Lockheart · 22/02/2022 13:10

[quote Thatsplentyjack]@Lockheart and a lot of the time they don't serve the full sentence.[/quote]
They do. It is a misconception that if someone is not in prison then they are not serving a sentence. Sentences are not usually entirely custodial.

TravellingFrom · 22/02/2022 13:16

@picklemewalnuts

The prosecutor said she was pushed. The jury didn't think it was beyond reasonable doubt.

Also, she chose to be in the van with him shortly before, she got out after a row. It's appalling, but it's not the stranger/stalker abduction it initially looked like.

I think ^^ explains why it isn't a higher sentence. I don't agree with it, but I can see why it happened. I agree, he effectively killed her. It's appalling.

So because you know the person, and you’ve spent some time in that car in van just before, it’s ok for them to push you out if the car and try to kill you now?

That reminds me all the stuff about it can be rape because you knew him/he was a friend so you must have led him and let him think you were up for it.

LookItsMeAgain · 22/02/2022 13:21

@CounsellorTroi

Should have been life. He has taken that girl’s life, effectively.
His legal council claimed that because she jumped out of the van that was moving at the time, she is responsible for her injuries. Except for the HUGE gaping hole in that argument that if she hadn't been kidnapped in the first place by her abusive and coercive ex, she wouldn't have been in the van and needed to escape.

I agree with everyone saying that the two (or possibly more) that were involved with her kidnap should have been locked away for life and the key thrown away.

I've been following this story as the BBC Breakfast team are really trying to highlight it. One of the people that they were interviewing today was from Women's Aid and she said that until the legal system catches up (and they usually take years), this type of sentencing will be seen to be accepting of the type of crime, making it acceptable in society and this is why they reoffend. Make the punishment fit the crime and they can't reoffend.

I feel for Angel and her family. Her mum and aunt were on BBC Breakfast this morning and her mum was just so upset at what has happened to her precious, lively, happy daughter.

picklemewalnuts · 22/02/2022 13:21

The thing is, a terrible thing happened and we know that.

We don't know his intentions when he picked her up and put her in his van.

Was it like a parent grabbing their toddler and carting them off when they insist on jumping in puddles (obviously she's an adult and it's totally inappropriate)- misguided, controlling, but not malicious.

A stranger grabbing a woman and carting her off is clearly intending harm- murder, rape, whatever.

A boyfriend may have intended to finish their argument, prove he was right, get her home where they can argue without her walking off.... all dickhead, controlling, absolutely unacceptable controlling behaviours.

But not indicative of intending to injure or physically abuse her.

We don't know that he grabbed her intending to carry her off, beat, rape etc.

The thing I can't forgive, and which to me suggests he should have a far higher sentence, is that he didn't stop or call emergency services or try to help her in any way.

That to me undermines any claim he may make that he didn't intend her harm.

Just to reiterate- I don't agree with the sentence, I'm just trying to understand how it could have been judged appropriate.

JetTail · 22/02/2022 13:22

Oh my God. That is so horrendously sad. Such a beautiful young girl. Like a Barbie doll. Tall, slim, a natural beauty. And now he's grinning internally as he has destroyed her and nobody will ever have her. What an utter bleep! I'd love to find him and fucking torture him. That girl's trauma of living like that must be absolutely awful. She can't even communicate. She would have been better off had she died I think. Oh my God, this has made me so angry. And how come I've never heard anything about this case? Why is it not front page news? Because, meh. Thanks for posting OP. If there is anything we could do collectively, such as sign a petition or something of that nature, I am sure that a lot of us would love to be able to try to obtain justice or even just to send our collective regards to her Mum?

Lockheart · 22/02/2022 13:23

Such a beautiful young girl. Like a Barbie doll. Tall, slim, a natural beauty.

Lots of people going on about how beautiful she is. It's utterly irrelevant. It wouldn't matter if she was miss world or plain Jane.

Houstonjane · 22/02/2022 13:23

This is a terrible case, the poor girl must of been terrified. Now her life, full of so much promise, has been destroyed by these scum.
Once again the law fails women badly.

JetTail · 22/02/2022 13:26

@picklemewalnuts

The thing is, a terrible thing happened and we know that.

We don't know his intentions when he picked her up and put her in his van.

Was it like a parent grabbing their toddler and carting them off when they insist on jumping in puddles (obviously she's an adult and it's totally inappropriate)- misguided, controlling, but not malicious.

A stranger grabbing a woman and carting her off is clearly intending harm- murder, rape, whatever.

A boyfriend may have intended to finish their argument, prove he was right, get her home where they can argue without her walking off.... all dickhead, controlling, absolutely unacceptable controlling behaviours.

But not indicative of intending to injure or physically abuse her.

We don't know that he grabbed her intending to carry her off, beat, rape etc.

The thing I can't forgive, and which to me suggests he should have a far higher sentence, is that he didn't stop or call emergency services or try to help her in any way.

That to me undermines any claim he may make that he didn't intend her harm.

Just to reiterate- I don't agree with the sentence, I'm just trying to understand how it could have been judged appropriate.

Are you actually serious? A parent picking up a toddler in a tantrum is analogous? On what planet is kidnapping a woman, putting her into a van and being instrumental in her sustaining life changing injuries (in the most extreme sense of that) similar to a parent picking up a toddler? Are you insane?
JetTail · 22/02/2022 13:27

@Lockheart

Such a beautiful young girl. Like a Barbie doll. Tall, slim, a natural beauty.

Lots of people going on about how beautiful she is. It's utterly irrelevant. It wouldn't matter if she was miss world or plain Jane.

It's not fucking irrelevant. Her life was destroyed! A beautiful young woman with everything going for her. And now? What is she now?
Hoppinggreen · 22/02/2022 13:28

@Lockheart

Such a beautiful young girl. Like a Barbie doll. Tall, slim, a natural beauty.

Lots of people going on about how beautiful she is. It's utterly irrelevant. It wouldn't matter if she was miss world or plain Jane.

Yes, as if somehow it would have been less tragic if she wasn’t as attractive
Lockheart · 22/02/2022 13:28

@JetTail is a beautiful young woman's life worth more than an ugly young woman's life? No? Then stop banging on about how Barbie like she was, it's bloody creepy and not relevant in the circumstances.

Brefugee · 22/02/2022 13:29

Also, she chose to be in the van with him shortly before, she got out after a row. It's appalling, but it's not the stranger/stalker abduction it initially looked like.

Wait, what? She had sex with him before so when he forced her an hour later it couldn't have been rape. Amirite?

JetTail · 22/02/2022 13:31

[quote Lockheart]@JetTail is a beautiful young woman's life worth more than an ugly young woman's life? No? Then stop banging on about how Barbie like she was, it's bloody creepy and not relevant in the circumstances.[/quote]
It's the loss. The loss of everything she was. That's what the problem is. Like when people mourn a talented actor, singer, musician, comedian, celeb. You mourn what brilliant qualities they had. She was also a kind and bubbly young lady. With so much potential. That's relevant.

HeadPain · 22/02/2022 13:31

@Lockheart "Then the AG will send the case to the Court of Appeal, and that will either leave the sentence as it is or alter it as appropriate."

Ok thanks. So it seems it has already been sent to the Court of Appeal, so issue has been found with the judge's sentencing decision/logic/rationale? "A kidnapper caught on camera bundling his girlfriend into a van before she was found seriously injured has had his prison sentence referred to the Court of Appeal after the Solicitor General, Alex Chalk QC, said it appeared to be “unduly lenient”." www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/court-of-appeal-solicitor-general-leicestershire-police-leicestershire-angel-b2019897.html

I'm guessing Solicitor General Alex Chalk QC is in the office of Attorney General? So now the Court of Appeal will increase it, or they can still decide to leave it as it is?

Oh yeh, just found this whilst writing this post: "Their sentences were reviewed and the Attorney General confirmed on Monday their terms had been referred to the Court of Appeal.

"It is now for the court to decide whether to increase their sentences," the Attorney General's spokesman added." www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-60474938

JetTail · 22/02/2022 13:31

And it's also relevant as a lot of these attacks by men are intended to destroy a woman's looks. Acid attacks. Domestic assaults. They very often target the face. Why? So that no other man can have her.