To think that it's alot harder to succeed in education / career if you are from a poorer background even if you are a bright child and the opposite of this is also true?

[ReallyGood]

Interested in what MNetters think. I was having a chat with dsis about schools. Unfortunately, because where I live DC will be going to the below average secondary school. They currently go to a primary which is in "requires improvement". Its all a bit rubbish but I have to work with what I have. we are a low income family and live on a council estate in a deprived area.

She thinks my DC can still be successful careerwise despite the rubbish schools and I said yes but it will be a hell of alot harder for them even if they were brighter than an average child from a middle class background. She thinks I'm being ridiculous and everyone has an equal opportunity in the uk no matter your background. If you have the talent and put in hard work it doesn't matter you'd be on an equal level playing field.
Do you agree with her?

I think partly it's because she feels we were brought up in a poor family and lots of our friends have and would now be classed as middle class or whatever so feels if she did it then why not others.

A good school makes a big difference. All the schools round here are good. They all get lots of students into Oxbridge.

This website is a great place to get career advice for young people even as young as thinking about gcse choices...
icould.com/

Any kid really, the format is interesting and it is genuinely useful.

Place marking! I fundraise for bursary places at an independent school and am interested in what impact you think this has on the individual and wider community.

Interesting documentary about 'poor' children applying for full bursaries in Harrow.

^It seems link didn't work its called Too Poor for Posh School.

@ReallyGood you don't say if you work or what your educational level is. For careers advice look at the national careers service on different careers available & qualifications needed for it.

Don't worry about the cost of university because if you're on a low income you will get financial help. Ditto, if your kids go to a deprived school there should be links with the local University outreach team. It's worth emailing your local secondary schools to find this out. Also, your kids can do a [[https://www.ucas.com/apprenticeships/what-you-need-know-about-apprenticeships/higher-apprenticeships
higher degree level apprenticeship]] where they work & study and have a guaranteed job at the end.

Have a look at guardian careers

Your kids school might be linked to the
Children's university scheme

You often hear about white privilege and make privilege and I don't deny they exist. But one privilege that is not often talked is middle class privilege.

In SOME ways (eduction and career) middle class privilege dwarves white and male privilege.

The daughter of two successful Asian parents will have opportunities fall in front of her that white, working-class boys could only dream of.

• male privilege

There's an activity called the Privilege Walk that your sister (and you) might find useful; it can show very clearly that we don't all start from the same point in life, when it comes to education and all kinds of other aspects of life.

A couple of examples:

• (3 minutes)
• (4 minutes)

There are other examples out there that explore, for instance, white privilege:

@vivainsomnia

kids need to be more headstrong and very determined to keep their heads down and focus on work whilst kids are disruptive at school, not being bullied for being a 'swot Indeed, but that build their resilience and prepares them better to real life.

If you're bright I presume the school is just glad you aren't being disruptive and you won't get really noticed / nurtured
That wasn't the case with my kids. Teachers did enjoy working with the brightest keen learners. Yes, they did have some quiet times when they finished their work early and had nothing to do but again, it was teaching them to deal with boredom and patience. It didn't impact on their ability to score very high on their results.

Good for you but bullying can be hardcore and physical and not excelling can turn into a logical survival skill for a lot of kids.

You can get resilience for a lot of things even if you're in a private school. And if you add SEN and a bad home (my experience) it didn't matter with all those factors how resilient I was, it was bloody impressive that I managed to just get by and stay a mentally happy person.

There's no comparison, poorer kids have it so much tougher. And as a poster said upthread if you're a POC it can be off the scale different. Imagine living with daily microaggressions, all that stuff, all that stress, then you have to sit and learn and pretend we're all equal and if we're not it's our own choice. Rubbish!

I came from a working class family and went to a very deprived school, I did well going to university and eventually worked my way up in the corporate world and was working abroad etc… only because I was bullied like crazy at school so became a geek and somehow survived. I then went on to meet an amazing guy from a very wealthy background and am now a stay at home mum with two children who I give my full attention to, even though they go to private school. I feel terribly GUILTY for all the money we spend on their education, music lessons outside of school (2 instruments) sports outside of school, Lamda private classes, entering them in competitions (which all costs money) - they are also having private tuition for upcoming 11 plus exams… I didn’t get any of this and as a result always felt inferior to people I met at university/work situations because I didn’t speak ‘right’ and behave with the mannerisms my counterparts would. My children already have an impressive CV (having passed music and Lamda exams) and therefore the confidence to be successful…

Some of you might be interested in the brilliant charity www.socialmobility.org.uk which works on exactly this issue

If she was right, why is she paying for private school? Evidently she doesn't actually believe that or she would put her kids where her mouth is.

@AllOfUsAreDead You're definitely not the only one that thinks BJ is a well-spoken idiot who's conned a nation...I sometimes cheer myself up (for a few minutes anyway) by imagining how the populace would react if he comes out with all that rubbish he spouts in a broad Liverpudlian or Brummie accent, or spoke like a lot of people from my original neck of the woods (Newcastle). (And no, mainstream media, Ant and Dec are really NOT broad Geordie...)

As I've said on another thread, those born into/from privilege don't really understand their privilege; how could they? They've never experienced being deprived, at least not in a material sense. (The emotional hang ups are a whole other set of theses...) The Privilege Walk links I shared a bit earlier were especially interesting to me to see the reactions of those who really were privileged, but hadn't actually realised it until they took part in the exercise.

It totally depends on the individual. My Dad's parents were v poor but my Dad got a Grammar school scholarship then went to University a year early as he was so bright. They took all my Dad's Grant money as they thought it was to compensate them for him not earning full time. So my Dad had to work part time thru the whole 4 years. My currnt job means I'm constantly meeting people from disadvantaged backgrounds who don't know about all the financial help available to study vocational & academic subjects. It makes me so annoyed & tbh reflects v v badly on the Job Centre & schools. There's a whole underclass thinking there's no help & no way to get the skills that could make for a better life.

She is being v unreasonable/naive.

However - I think there is a thing about educational outcomes etc being mainly correlated to the mother's educational status/family background. Are you and your DSIs of similar educational level? I assume rather simplistically that you were raised in similar circumstances but of course this may not be true.

thebrilliantclub.org/
The brilliant club works with children and schools from/in disadvantaged backgrounds to access University. N

I was just talking about this with my sister, who works in student services at a RG university. She was saying that the uni has made great strides towards widening the diversity of intake (largely through setting different entrance requirements for applicants from poorer postcode areas)... but that they had totally failed to realise that these students (and others, for different reasons) would struggle to succeed at a typical university in a system that is set up to fit 'normal' middle-class students. Just having the confidence and wherewithal to - for example - take part in a tutorial, to ask for help from a tutor, to be confident in speaking out in front of others, to be able to socialise and study in a place where 50% of your fellow students have come from private schools / have well-off parents / don't have to work during term time or at all etc etc.

Equality of opportunity doesn't stop at the point of getting into Uni - there needs to be ongoing support for students who don't fit into the 'normal' middle class mould, to allow them to benefit from the ongoing opportunities.

@Alrightqueenie

thebrilliantclub.org/ The brilliant club works with children and schools from/in disadvantaged backgrounds to access University. N

The points you've raised like confidence, speaking up and knowing how to socialise with in different settings with people not from similar backgrounds - what would you suggest would help kids from poorer backgrounds gain these type of skills. We just don't know and hence mix with MC people. My dsis does as she has made lots of friends with school mums and that is her life. She is still the same to me but the difference is between our children. It's vast - they have friends with holiday homes / horses / nannies and they speak so differently - you'd think they were from the South not from the North which is where we live! They have been exposed and live in such a different world which I cannot replicate even slightly so how can kids like mine develop these skills.

@ReallyGood I've got friends from really different backgrounds that I've met through work, volunteering and university. I take people as they are and if I like someone then I like them regardless of social background. I've got very wealthy friends and from the opposite end of the scale. I've also got atheist friends and some whom are very religious. This I feel is important for my children to experience; that it's vital to value people for their merits rather than for networking opportunities. I don't avoid people because they wear head scarves or eat different foods or talk differently. I see it as a learning opportunity and as a way to learn empathy and compassion.

It sounds like your sister mixes with people from a similar social background to her currently. It's a bit of a goldfish bowl, they're all the same and probably look the same. It doesn't sound like she mixes with a culturally and social diverse range of people. Don't try to compete with her, carve out your own path for your children.