To think employers will have to get used to treating staff better?

[Monopolyiscrap]

In my field like many, there is a shortage of experienced staff. Suddenly the shit employers are all complaining about how they can not get any staff. In a Facebook group for people who do my work, you often get employers posting asking people to advise why they are getting no responses to their job advert. When you look, it is usually because they are being unrealistic in what they are expecting for the money. But they generally do not like being told that.

Good employers are still attracting staff. I got my current job as a friend who was working at the company and told me they were a great employer, and the salary is competitive. Managers treat people well and go out of their way to praise people and offer training and support. Meanwhile, the shit employer I worked for five years ago can't find anyone.

Employers are going to have to get used to treating staff better. AIBU?

My sector is struggling to recruit as there is just a lack of talent out there. It doesn't help that when the graduates qualify (accountants) they are so sick of the boring day to day job they leave as management doesn't dish out the 'cooler' work to everyone so they all get experience.

Heard one story where all the grads in a cohort got promoted except one, with the excuse being that 'he never talked about it'. He wasn't worse than the other grads at all, his management just failed him. Surprise surprise, he left a month later as he felt undervalued and now they are even worse off with resource.

Luckily my team is awesome and I have no plans to leave.

Employers are also being too fussy - they're used to being able to recruit from Eastern Europe on exploitation wages, rather than train people for the job. If they want a pipeline of good quality employee in future years, pick an eager beaver and train in-house.

I'm not hearing we have no applicants, but that we have no quality applicants - which can range from not qualified to "face doesn't fit". It's a seller's market, which is a good thing.

@Brefugee

one American labor law I look forward to seeing here, now we're free of EU tyranny.

is there an EU law that prevents this?

Of course not. But since we now have to live with the ongoing shitshow of Brexit, we may as well make it as uncomfortable as possible for the scum that caused it. One way is to make Brexiteers squirm by asking for nice things and justify it by "being out of the EU".

For example isn't it great that Dyson can just up his workers salary by 10% because we are finally free of the yoke of EU tyranny.

Similarly the fact that Wetherspoons are introducing employee councils now we are feeling the sunshine of British freedoms on our EU-covered faces.

You get the idea.

@Aprilx

Maybe my experience is different because I would like to go back to work, and I am finding it very hard. I am not sure that the staff shortages are extending much beyond the hospitality industry, it is still extremely competitive market for the job hunter as far as I can tell.

The NHS is desperate for non medical (admin) staff. And I know the Building Society I work for can't recruit enough people in branch roles.

Ds1 has just landed his first job and they're falling over backwards to look after their employees. I'm pleasantly surprised by how well he's being treated and he's just landed a pay rise after having been there only six months.

Employers will have to keep up or fail to retain people.

@Oblomov22

I can't get over FunnyInjury post. Turn away clients? How shortsighted is this? What salary are you offering? say £40k? Offer £45k. Or £50. You will make up that £5k or £10k on the clients you don't then need to turn down, quickly, surely?

I can well believe it. There really are employers out there that would rather go bust than pay decent wages.

Maybe my experience is different because I would like to go back to work, and I am finding it very hard. I am not sure that the staff shortages are extending much beyond the hospitality industry, it is still extremely competitive market for the job hunter as far as I can tell.

We’re not hospitality and are struggling to recruit all levels of staff.

Partly it is because the company isn’t brilliant, small compared to our flashier competitors. But, to be fair, they are struggling too.

Employers are also being too fussy - they're used to being able to recruit from Eastern Europe on exploitation wages, rather than train people for the job. If they want a pipeline of good quality employee in future years, pick an eager beaver and train in-house.

We have never employed any staff on exploitation wages.

We can’t even find “eager beavers” to train in house. We’ve just spent a year training one and he’s just left.

I think it depends really.
Jobs that need some kind of minimal standard qualification, yes. Smaller field of people for more jobs.
Unskilled labour that you need no formal training for- no. There're always going to be people who need jobs and who are desperate for work. They will continue turning over staff and not caring.

I think employers need to focus on OTJ training, rather than just expecting a ready-fit employee who needs very little care and attention.
That will enable them to choose from a wider pool of applicants, although this means a change in not only the recruitment process but a change in those working for companies in recruitment.
I also feel that some employers are fire-fighting multiple problems in the background, this doesn't make for a happy environment. There's plenty been thrown in at the deep end.

@stuntbubbles

I’d love for this to be true. Some recent “perks” I’ve seen listed on job adverts:

Pension (er, you mean the mandatory minimum pension scheme?)
Statutory holiday allowance
Free fruit bowl in the office
Half a day off on your birthday (just half, mind)
1 day a week WFH! (Treat yoself)
Wine Friday with colleagues (would rather die)
Newly decorated London office (???)

Yet the responsibilities are vast and the salary pathetic. Just pay people properly so they can afford their own manky bananas, offer decent holiday, and flexi as standard FFS.

But with a cost of living crisis, energy crisis, housing crisis, climate crisis, pick your own crisis, impending war, inflation, etc, I think it’s going to go the way of employer’s choice and be grateful for your free bruised fruit and £22k for a senior role that was £22k 15 years ago.

We're having a consultation at work (public sector) about losing something which could be seen as a perk (it really isn't though). Various people responded to the consultation saying they thought it would be harder to recruit if this 'perk' is lost. The employer's response? It will be easy to recruit because of the great conditions in the public sector, the examples given being annual leave (took the hump when I pointed out this was a legal requirement) and a pension (days of amazing final salary pensions long gone, at least in my part of the public sector). Meanwhile roles are going unfilled and morale of remaining staff has gone through the floor. People leaving left, right and centre for fellow public sector organisations who do value their staff (and I don't just mean through higher pay).

Unfortunately we are now seeing the aftermath of nearly 2 decades of employers being able to hire cheap labour from abroad. People who worked for less money and less employee benefits/good working conditions. It was always going to be a ticking time bomb.

I think pay is definitely one element. Although I often think pay is almost more important in retaining staff - nothing makes a person feel less valued and motivated than realising they're not being paid but being asked to do more.

But there's a skills shortage too. I don't really understand why considering for years there was a lot of competition for jobs. But I find it quite interesting.

I run a small business and employ freelancers on an ad hoc basis. I have a number of brilliant ones who are all extremely loyal and reliable, not least because I pay top rates, provide realistic deadlines and good briefings.

But whenever I need to find new freelancers, I'm always shocked at how bad so many of the people I contact are. In many cases, I don't even get around to seeing their work because their engagement with me is so poor that I realise I can't risk putting them in front of my clients, even if the work itself is brilliant (which seems unlikely).

What I don't fully understand is how this happens. How are these skills not being developed? How did these people earn money (or how do they? Is this why their rates are so low?)

I think pay is definitely one element. Although I often think pay is almost more important in retaining staff - nothing makes a person feel less valued and motivated than realising they're not being paid but being asked to do more.

Speaking for myself, it's never just about pay. It's the whole package. Travel time is a massive factor. Sometimes a £40K job is worth £50K if you don't have to travel 200 miles a week. Also conditions. Even if hybrid isn't on offer, flextime can be a big draw. This is probably the only reason why just putting a number in a job advert is a little misleading. (But still no excuse for not doing it).

"You will be offered a competitive salary"

Oh, yeah? So competitive you won't say what it is. You're competing with the candidates to pay them as little as you can get away with.

I work in am industry that is due to hugely increase over the next decade or so, and qualified people are in short supply and good people keep getting poached. Staff retention comes up a lot, and people keep saying that the company will need to pay people more. But the thing is, the new entrants to the industry have much deeper pockets, so money alone won't do it. They need to start making the work culture more appealing too.

Not wringing every last drop of blood out of the staff that they do have would be a start.

It goes in cycles I think, and what may be required now to keep staff or attract them will not necessarily be so should employment prospects worsen.

@EatSleepRantRepeat

Employers are also being too fussy - they're used to being able to recruit from Eastern Europe on exploitation wages, rather than train people for the job. If they want a pipeline of good quality employee in future years, pick an eager beaver and train in-house.

I'm not hearing we have no applicants, but that we have no quality applicants - which can range from not qualified to "face doesn't fit". It's a seller's market, which is a good thing.

This is true - employers always want someone "young and dynamic, with ten years of experience - and just out of university". Hmmm.

if Brexit actually does mean employers have to get off their bottoms and train people, there will be a silver lining

money alone won't do it. They need to start making the work culture more appealing too

totally agree. I am sure many if not most people value flexible working over an extra couple of K in salary. Employer culture is very important.

My last employer was one of those with unrealistic expectations. Thought he gave me the greatest opportunity in the world working for him. Initially it was a lovely job but I was about £10k under the going rate for the position. However I had a 5 min walk to work, quiet location and workplace, relaxed feeling at work, nice colleagues, and had an extra 10 mins with clients which really helped de stress my work life.

He then reduced the time I had with clients to less than the industry standard, didn't increase my pay in line with this or the extra qualifications I gained to grow his business, got rid of sick pay (initially full pay for a day off sick - which I never actually used but nice to know it was there!), reduced employer pension contributions to the minimum required, moved premises so it was now a 30min drive for me.... etc. I was ungrateful apparently when I told him I was leaving for a company paying the going rate plus bonuses for the same job but with better equipment at my disposal.

I would like to say that this would happen where I work but I doubt it. In fact most of my team just had a pay rise (retainer fee) and a few of us with less qualifications have not. Fuming doesn't even cover it, it's like a massive fuck you right to my face and shows me exactly how much they value me and all the years of hard work I've given them.

@FunnyInjury

We’re recruiting for one qualified member of staff and can’t find anyone! It’s a very small, established, reputable business! Twice before we’ve recruited for the same qualification in the last 8 years and never had such a dismal response, don’t know what we’ll do tbh 🤷‍♀️ Have to start turning potential clients away I suppose, it’s hard atm!

If you can't offer more money to the prospective employee, offer better terms and conditions.

if Brexit actually does mean employers have to get off their bottoms and train people, there will be a silver lining

Just remember it wasn't meant to. However there is a rare chance to put the promoters of Brexit to the sword over this (and boy, do they not like it ...).

You can take a similar tack with Covid. The more the government bang on about how brilliant the UKs covid response has been, it's another stab at any excuse that economic problems are "down to covid" ...

(I'm old, grumpy, and had it with lying scumbag politicians ...)

For the first time in my 25 year career (just retrained in HR) in higher education admin, I submitted an application on Sunday and was contacted for an interview on Monday. If I’m made an offer I will ask for the highest bank offered.

TheHealth sector seems to be really struggling.
I’ve seen agency rates have increased, but if the awful working conditions aren’t also addressed, retention is poor. I read an article describing the trend of people retiring earlier if they can, know a few people who’ve done this.

@Sloth66

TheHealth sector seems to be really struggling. I’ve seen agency rates have increased, but if the awful working conditions aren’t also addressed, retention is poor. I read an article describing the trend of people retiring earlier if they can, know a few people who’ve done this.

This is case around the world too- mixed in with the poor pay and conditions here the biggest risk to the NHS is the hemorrhaging of staff, it will be a catastrophic issue in the not too far away future.