To admit I have no idea wtf is going on with Russia and the

[Dustlandcinderella]

I follow the news and can see that There is a lot about Russia and the Ukraine. But I can’t quite figure out what is happening , what the background is, and what the truth is (bearing in mind in any war there is propaganda on each side).

Am I the only person who doesn’t actually understand what’s going on

BerylStrip

The agreement was torn up by the West as it was not honoured for a very long time. The only country which is between NATO and Russia is Belarus. USA has influence over the situation and they do want NATO missiles at all the countries of Russian boarders hence the Ukraine conflict.

If you're on TikTok look up Xenasolo - she lives in Ukraine and is posting most days about what's going on. I've learnt a lot from her, she's fab.

Keepyourheadscrewedon

Exactly for safety, as civil was did not stop.
By the way did you take many refugees from Iraq and Syria for that matter? When UK sent troops there.
Am afraid I consider your opinion is bs due to the lack of knowledge and information.

@BusyEvenForBee

BerylStrip

The agreement was torn up by the West as it was not honoured for a very long time. The only country which is between NATO and Russia is Belarus. USA has influence over the situation and they do want NATO missiles at all the countries of Russian boarders hence the Ukraine conflict.

Why are you so hell-bent on painting Russia as some poor little innocent in all of this ?

The West did not tear up Minsk or Minsk 2. It was generally agreed to have been superceded some time ago by pretty much everyone concerned.

It is of note - but you clearly won't have it - that the Russians have been destabilising Ukraine for years which puts the lie to them wanting Minsk and Minsk 2 to be made to work.

I repeat my question which you will not answer.

You have stated you want Minsk (and I will assume you mean Minsk2) to be enforced. Putin has said himself that it has been torn up.

How do you propose this is done ? Or do you concede it's a pipe-dream and we need to accept the realities of the current situation - namely that Russia has invaded part of Ukraine on a pretext and is likely to annexe the rest in the coming days and weeks ?

This has been a total failure of diplomacy. Neither the UK ( with the ignorant Truss) nor the US ( who know little about Europe and care less) have been able to negotiate meaningfully with Russia. You don't have to like Putin to appreciate his concern about having NATO forces in Ukraine particularly when they are supported by Fascist Groups.

Nor have the UK and the US examined the component parts of the Ukrainian Government or if they have they don't care.

It is disgraceful that fascist elements ( eg the Azov Battalions etc.) have been taken into the Ukrainian Army (to bolster its borders with the Separatist Donbass) and indeed become ministers and allowed to organise . These fascist, white supremacist organisations have organised pogroms/ street attacks against Roma people and attacked LGBT, International Women's Day meetings etc.

The Ukrainian Government has welcomed these elements because its own army was so weak. Out of desperation maybe, but Fascists are not democrats and the risks are that they will take over Ukraine. Remember they called Russians, Jews, Roma, LGBT etc 'untermenschen' who were only fit for slavery or extermination.

Surely no one wants a rerun of what happened in WW2 with mass murders of the Ukrainians by Ukrainian fascist groups.

All this may seem remote to us in the UK or US but very real threats by the Russians who lost 26 million in WW2 fighting Nazis. Remember neither the UK nor the US were occupied by Nazi armies in WW2 but Ukraine and Russia were.

BerylStrip

You are right. Broken record...

Russia is invading Ukraine because Russia (Putin) does not want Ukraine to join NATO.

@BusyEvenForBee

BerylStrip

You are right. Broken record...

Pot, kettle and black love. Pot, kettle and black.

@jeannie46

This has been a total failure of diplomacy. Neither the UK ( with the ignorant Truss) nor the US ( who know little about Europe and care less) have been able to negotiate meaningfully with Russia. You don't have to like Putin to appreciate his concern about having NATO forces in Ukraine particularly when they are supported by Fascist Groups.

Nor have the UK and the US examined the component parts of the Ukrainian Government or if they have they don't care.

It is disgraceful that fascist elements ( eg the Azov Battalions etc.) have been taken into the Ukrainian Army (to bolster its borders with the Separatist Donbass) and indeed become ministers and allowed to organise . These fascist, white supremacist organisations have organised pogroms/ street attacks against Roma people and attacked LGBT, International Women's Day meetings etc.

The Ukrainian Government has welcomed these elements because its own army was so weak. Out of desperation maybe, but Fascists are not democrats and the risks are that they will take over Ukraine. Remember they called Russians, Jews, Roma, LGBT etc 'untermenschen' who were only fit for slavery or extermination.

Surely no one wants a rerun of what happened in WW2 with mass murders of the Ukrainians by Ukrainian fascist groups.

All this may seem remote to us in the UK or US but very real threats by the Russians who lost 26 million in WW2 fighting Nazis. Remember neither the UK nor the US were occupied by Nazi armies in WW2 but Ukraine and Russia were.

Really ? Are we talking about the same Putin ?

because I promise you, his treatment of, say LGBT groups is much the same as the fascist groups you are claiming he's so frightened of.

@jeannie46 Very good post.

Our negotiating stance was "go away or else" and look at what has happened?

I'm not entirely convinced that arming the Ukrainian resistance will end well for us, the Russians or the Ukrainians, just as didn't in Afghanistan.

BerylStrip
Again, I did answer your question, but will elaborate.

This is the quote of what Putin said (apologies for using the quote in the original language):
“Минские договоренности были убиты еще задолго до вчерашнего признания республик Донбасса. И не нами, не представителями этих республик, а действующими киевскими властями. И признание этих республик продиктовано тем, что публично руководство Украины начало заявлять, что не собирается выполнять эти соглашения. В этом смысле да, конечно, минские соглашения – их не существует. Чего ж их выполнять, если мы признали независимость этих образований”, - сказал Путин

This is Google Translator:
Minsk agreements were killed long before yesterday's recognition of the republics of Donbass. And not by us, not by representatives of these republics, but by the current Kiev authorities. And the recognition of these republics is dictated by the fact that the leadership of Ukraine began to publicly declare that it was not going to fulfill these agreements. In this sense, yes, of course, the Minsk agreements - they do not exist. Why fulfill them if we recognized the independence of these entities,” Putin said.
What part is not clear to you?
Minsk agreements were killed long time ago by Ukraine itself not honouring it!

BerylStrip

Keep your cool and do not get personal. I am not your love.

@jeannie46

Spot on!

because I promise you, his treatment of, say LGBT groups is much the same as the fascist groups you are claiming he's so frightened of

As terrible as he is, Putin looks like a stonewall activist compared to what some of these right wing groping will do to minorities.

i ve reported that @BerylStrip, bang out of order.

The money laundering in London is the tip of the iceberg. Look at the recent revelations about account holders with Credit Suisse. The city of London Police the FCA and Hedge funds are all in it up to their necks and have been for decades. There is nowhere to report anything, no way to get anything done or investigated.

Russia will be become North Korea - a tin pot country no one will ever wish to deal with again. A pariah state. In the eyes of the world everyone will see the Kremlin for what they really are - cold blooded executioners invading innocent democratic countries.
It will ruin the life chances of at least a generation of f young Russians if not longer and all to achieve what? A bodged attempt to reinstate the USSR?!
If I were Russian I would work hard at relocating elsewhere in the world and hiding where I was from, they may think they have the upper hand for now in Ukraine but this story hasn’t finished yet. You can’t invade a country for no reason whatsoever in 2022 and get away with it - there will be huge huge consequences for Russia for sure.

Diplomats have been running around extensively over the last few weeks and months. There was a suggestion from the west that Finland’s model of neutrality be adopted by Ukraine: that has clearly been rejected, and not by us.

At the end of the day Russia has pushed this because it does not want independent states on their borders. It wants, or Putin wants, the USSR back. The article he wrote last year about the unity of Ukraine with Russia, entirely ignoring Ukraine’s independent historical and cultural existence, shows something of the amount of pro-imperial propaganda he must be putting out in Russia.

We will be lucky to contain this to Ukraine I think.

End of... city of London police??

Any links

I totally agree about the culpability of the financial system in London too. It’s not been good for the majority of people in the U.K. either. “Money is the root of all evil”.

@endofagain

The money laundering in London is the tip of the iceberg. Look at the recent revelations about account holders with Credit Suisse. The city of London Police the FCA and Hedge funds are all in it up to their necks and have been for decades. There is nowhere to report anything, no way to get anything done or investigated.

Have a look at the tax it was a quite way to tax the oligarchs

www.gov.uk/guidance/annual-tax-on-enveloped-dwellings-the-basics

Minsk agreement

www.chathamhouse.org/2020/05/minsk-conundrum-western-policy-and-russias-war-eastern-ukraine-0/minsk-2-agreement

Russia will be become North Korea - a tin pot country no one will ever wish to deal with again. A pariah state. In the eyes of the world everyone will see the Kremlin for what they really are - cold blooded executioners invading innocent democratic countries

Yes that happened to China didn't it when they did similar? not!

Russia is too big an exporter of commodities, gas oil, wheat, nickel copper, aluminum and we need them on side for the fight against climate change, however unlikely that might seem atm.

Johnson is just all talk.

@Tigersonvaseline

End of... city of London police??

Any links

No, just personal experience that I will not go into here. One person is dead and another is abroad and untouchable.