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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Dealing with racial microaggressions from white male manager

133 replies

Quirkyme · 21/02/2022 15:07

Hi,

There's so much going on at work now.

In addition to those issues , my manager has been making racial comments.

So started in this team a few months prior and I noticed in my first team meeting that he kept referring to a "black woman" in an advert, (he emphasised this about 3x) but her ethnicity had nothing to do with the point he was making about said advert.

Following that, every interaction after he would drop in the name of black rappers and singers he knew, despite the fact we weren't talking about rappers/singers or music or anything related to said artists.

These exchanges were via Teams.

Recently, we had a team lunch, in person, he asked me my heritage - and when I said it, he said he "knew it" because we all "looked the same and have the same features". I was taken aback by this visibly , and said "oh wow okay"

I replied saying along the lines of "actually, a lot of people don't often guess correctly where I'm from, some have thought I'm from "insert different regions of Africa" or that I'm Caribbean", he then was taken aback and said "Caribbean?!' - as if he was some expert on what Caribbeans look like.

He then went on to tell me his "best friend was black", that he has "black friends" and listed where all of them were from.

Wtf.

I'm literally waiting for him to tell me next that he has had "black girlfriends". It's weird as hell.

Has anyone dealt with this with management?

I've dealt with this before in the past with friends and white men who tried it on and I've very quickly nipped that in the bud, and left that there.

But this guy is my manager.
I'm tired of this.

OP posts:

Toanewstart23 · 21/02/2022 16:23

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Eightiesfan · 21/02/2022 16:23

@Ihatesw

Your post reminds me of the chapter from one of my favourite books “why I’m no longer talking to white people about race”

In my experience- log everything and use it when you need to to reference the behaviours as well as impact on you

That is a fantastic book!

CorrBlimeyGG · 21/02/2022 16:25

@starfro

Sounds like he's trying too hard to be friendly and inclusive.

Not everyone is perfect in their social interactions, but 99% of the time they mean well.

Racism is all good because 99% of the time they mean well?

Quirkyme · 21/02/2022 16:27

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Quotes deleted post

MissAngorian · 21/02/2022 16:31

@mummykel16

That is not what I said at all, or what I meant

But you don't get to tell OP it's not something to worry about when they're saying, very plainly, that it is something she's concerned about.

neverbeenskiing · 21/02/2022 16:34

White person to white person it wouldn't be an issue to say "where did you originate from"...

FFS it's not "white person to white person" though is it? These comments are being made by a white man in a position to authority to a woman of colour who works for him. Can you really not see why that's an important distinction? Not that I've ever heard a white person ask another white person where they "originate" from and then claim they knew what they were going to say because their "facial features" were a dead giveaway

The posters making excuses for this man need to take some time to reflect honestly on why it is exactly that they feel compelled to do so.

I am so sorry you are having to deal with this shit, OP. It's not ok.

EdithRea · 21/02/2022 16:34

It sounds like he thinks he can skirt around a HR issue by openly fetishising you, then claiming he 'never said anything wrong' and he 'can't say black anymore, world's gone mad.' A bit like that poster there on Page 1 - "he's just saying words, he's just showing an interest, maybe he likes you tee hee" - some people never leave the playground, it seems.

His constant references, though, are designed to unnerve you and make you uncomfortable. He knows exactly what he's doing.

Glenthebattleostrich · 21/02/2022 16:35

It probably doesn't help but I'll bet everyone on your team thinks hes an absolute wanker.

I'd certainly be having a not so quiet word with HR about the comments. Totally inappropriate.

Daydreamsinsantafe · 21/02/2022 16:37

@Quirkyme

I’ve had this before with a boss. He fancied me. The irony of how racist white men are sexually attracted to the women they are actually repulsed by but that’s another story.
Are you getting that vibe from him? He seems desperate for your attention

In the end I told my boss to stop speaking to be unless he needed to give direct instruction.
“Please don’t speak to me unless it’s something I need to do for work”. I said it clearly in a room full of people and with conviction.
I really don’t have it in me any more to be civil or to have faith in complaints procedures etc. You’ll likely be complaining to someone who really can’t see the problem. It’s exhausting. Put him in his place with an audience and let him squirm.

Danikm151 · 21/02/2022 16:38

HR all the way

BowerOfBramble · 21/02/2022 16:39

@Arabellla

On what planet is saying 'you all look the same and have the same features' friendly and inclusive?

Another thread to prove racism is well and alive on MN.

I snorted at this.

God knows I'm not an expert but you have to be an absolute IDIOT not to realise that basically saying "everyone from x country looks the same" is racist. And racism isn't really very friendly.

starfro · 21/02/2022 16:41

@EdithRea

His constant references, though, are designed to unnerve you and make you uncomfortable. He knows exactly what he's doing.

"His constant references, though, are designed to unnerve you and make you uncomfortable"

You've just made that up. His motivations are likely to be the exact opposite.

Arabellla · 21/02/2022 16:42

His motivations are likely to be the exact opposite.

You've just that made up, @starfro

Arabellla · 21/02/2022 16:43

God knows I'm not an expert but you have to be an absolute IDIOT not to realise that basically saying "everyone from x country looks the same" is racist. And racism isn't really very friendly.

Exactly @BowerOfBramble

iklboo · 21/02/2022 16:43

The fact he is asking and showing an interest in your family culture and it being turned around as somehow racist speaks volumes about what's wrong with the world today

Direct from the You Can't Even Say Anything These Days whining manual. FFS. If you can't see racism in what OP is experiencing, you're part of the problem.

Cherryblossoms85 · 21/02/2022 16:47

What I can't believe is any poster who defends this behaviour, at all. Of course I'm sometimes curious about where people's families originally came from, whether it was 100s of years ago or 20. But unless I knew them really, really well and it was just a passing chat, then no, I would not ask, and would avoid any suggestion that "people from XYZ country are like that" etc. And certainly not if I was their manager!! How are people missing how much of a difference this makes?

neverbeenskiing · 21/02/2022 16:49

He knows exactly what he's doing.

This. Have you seen 'I May Destroy You'?There is a brilliant monologue delivered by Michaela Coel's character about men who pretend they "don't know where the line is anymore" when challenged about their conduct but they know exactly what they're doing. They know exactly where the line is and that's why they choose to "tiptoe" right on the boundary rather than cross it, because then it's easier to gaslight or discredit the women who challenge them.

LovedayCL · 21/02/2022 16:53

@mummykel16

That is not what I said at all, or what I meant

It was quite literally what you said.

Polyanthus2 · 21/02/2022 16:55

Could you have a 'chat' and say that you don't like him raising your colour as you want to feel part of the team and not the different one.

I know he is an arsehole but you probably want to keep your job and not upset your boss.
It's difficult to know what to say or do which won't fire him up and make him worse.

starfro · 21/02/2022 16:58

@Arabellla

His motivations are likely to be the exact opposite.

You've just that made up, @starfro

People don't interact perfectly, most can be clumsy at times. People offend others all the time. MN is full of people getting offended every day, when most of the time it could be sorted with a simple conversation. Adults are quite happy to be told if they've inadvertently offended someone, because 99% of the time they didn't mean to.

ps racists don't say their "best friend is black/Muslim/Jewish". I doubt many have come across BNP types, but I have sadly once or twice and they certainly don't say things like this.

phoenixrosehere · 21/02/2022 16:58

The fact he is asking and showing an interest in your family culture and it being turned around as somehow racist speaks volumes about what's wrong with the world today

Mentioning all the Black artists and celebrities you know, the Black music you listen to and the amount of black people and black friends you know or have is not normal and very othering. Do you mention those things to every person of your ethnicity? Do you tell someone of your ethnicity the ethnicity of your other friends if they are of the same group? I highly doubt it so why would you do the same to someone who isn’t of your ethnicity? Could they not like the same music as you? Could they not have the same interest or do you just assume based on their looks and race what they’re into before they open their mouths?

Black people, minority people period are not monolithic. We don’t all listen to the same music, like all the same celebrities, nor care if you have friends and family members that look like us and it’s weird to bring it up anyway when there is no need to especially in a work setting.

Brainwave89 · 21/02/2022 17:00

As a person of colour I have had these and more. I am careful, but firm in closing down the question where do you come from, followed by where do you actually come from- Answer Birmingham both times, the second a little more robust than the first. I did have a colleague once say "they all look similar". I pulled him to one said and told him very directly this was not appropriate and it did not happen again. This bloke sounds like an idiot TBH. Think about wether a quiet chat or a visit to HR is the best option.

mummykel16 · 21/02/2022 17:04

It was quite literally what you said.

It's Part of what I said, I've always found the way that works for me is to reflect such thoughts and behaviour right back which is what I said.

Tequilabeliever · 21/02/2022 17:06

You know when anyone ever says “I have black friends/family” they are likely to come out with some racist comment.

He sounds awful and you need to report him to higher up the food chain.

neverbeenskiing · 21/02/2022 17:08

ps racists don't say their "best friend is black/Muslim/Jewish". I doubt many have come across BNP types, but I have sadly once or twice and they certainly don't say things like this.

You have a very narrow view of what constitutes racism. You don't have to be a "BNP type" to be racially insensitive or to hold racist views. Casually racist attitudes, assumptions and language are everywhere...in the media, in workplaces, in our institutions. Just because someone isn't a card carrying member of a far-right organisation that doesn't mean they can't possibly hold racist attitudes, or be behaving in a way that needs to be addressed.

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