Why do people from poorer backgrounds have low aspirations

[suggestedlogin]

I may not be explaining myself well here so please bear with me!

I've seen on here a few times where it's been mentioned that people from poorer backgrounds / deprived areas don't have higher aspirations. It seems they can do better but don't.

Just wondering why this is and what would help to change it.

Reason I'm asking is I'm from a por background and I still am. I don't want this for my kids but don't know how or what to do to change it.

When ds1 was in primary school he said he wanted to be a builder like his dad. We were out walking the dog one night and he said that he would love to learn more about the sky and how it works and would do this in his spare time when not building things.
When I told him people do that for a job it blew his mind and he asked if he could do that.
He's now doing vetmed at university so it is possible to change the direction.

He went to a grammar school where the students and parents were told about initiatives like Sutton Trust which help students from deprived backgrounds gain opportunities. Dd is in a comprehensive (by choice) which probably has more need of this but they haven't been given any information.

I deal with many families in poverty in work and I would say White British families are worst affected, in the sense of aspirations and encouragement. Children from BAME families in the same economic demography seem to do better because their parents drive them and encourage them, and instil within them that education is the key. Obviously I'm generalising here, but I think research backs this up.

There are lots of reasons, which broadly fall into two categories:

1. People born into privilege having their way paved for them

e.g.

Having more opportunities, thorough going to better schools (even if state, you still need to be able to afford to live next to it) and through people they know giving them a leg up.

Unconscious bias - people from privileged backgrounds being more likely to get the job / university place etc because of assumptions made about them purely because of accent or where they are from or whatever

Access to money meaning they are protected from hardship and can make the most of the opportunities that come their way

Growing up in a wider environment where everyone expects them to do well in life, e.g. to go to university and get a new job

1. Things within your control

e.g. how much you read to them, what your expectations are, how much you can protect them from reverse snobbery from others holding them back, how wide their horizons are based on the opportunities you give them and ideas you expose them to, how much support they get with schoolwork etc etc

We can't do a lot about the unfairness in society, but it does irk me when people don't acknowledge the huge inequalities and imply that it's poor parenting that's the main issue.

This is one of the wisest things I’ve ever seen here:

The best way you can inspire your own child is to keep building your own future and let them see you do it - take them with you.

@Biker47 but you have extrapolated your experience to millions of people. That's what I'm questioning.

To use a trite phrase
‘You can only be what you can see’

@LimeSegment

This can be the case in a rich or poor family but sometimes it's a case of not really knowing what jobs are out there. If you don't know anyone that does whatever job, it doesn't seem like you could get that job. Or you might not even know it exists, or know much about it.

Totally. Before I left home I’d never met a lawyer or a journalist or anyone with a good job at the council or a nurse or an engineer or a filmmaker etc etc etc . if your family knows people in certain jobs it’s soooo much easier.

One nice thing most state schools are doing now is trying to get alumni with interesting jobs to come back and chat with the kids. Try asking your kids teachers if they’re doing that?

I was never encouraged to go to university because no one else in my family had been. It wasn’t seen as an option.
I was encouraged to get a job, any job so worked in shops.

Then I had dc and wanted them to know that they could do anything so I decided to show them. I went to university, studied hard and got an okay paying job. I can save, I have fun money and I know that I can achieve things that I wouldn’t have dreamed of in the past. This has really annoyed my family because to them they feel that I’ve turned my back on my past. They are not proud of me. I’m proud of me.

Forgot to add:

-stressful situations at home lead many kids to become disengaged at school or behave badly
-falling in with the wrong crowd

I am in my forties and was raised by parents who had junior managerial positions.

My mum especially always tempered my ambitions. Always know your place - don’t get carried away, don’t make waves.

She was alienate very intimidated by educated people - and let people walk all over her and us.

I have done well - have a senior position and high income. She always puts me down - acts as if I am very junior - if I say something about work both she and my dad will talk about how I couldn’t possibly be expects to take decisions and manage people etc - that’s my bosses job!

I am a director with a few hundred staff!!

They just believe people should’ve get above themselves - I should live in a certain type of house and drive a certain type of car - nothing too expensive because how could I possibly afford that - I’m just a little girl!

Because my dc's friends' parents were: bankers, lawyers, doctors (usually consultants), chartered surveyors, business men and women, accountants, actuaries, a couple of public figures, an MP, senior executives, etc. There were a few so wealthy they didn't work.

DH's grandad was a miner and then he joined the army. Spent his life in service after that. His DC became teachers, nurses, joined the forces and that is what their DC experienced. Their DC mostly went to good uni's and there are a couple of Drs, a couple of lawyers, a vicar and the rest are mostly solidly middle middle - teaching/nursing/local government.

My grandparents had inherited wealth and a farm - IHT and my mother eroded their wealth.

Fortunately I was a grafter and made enough to live well; I then married DH who was v successful.

It takes three generations to rise and three to fall.

HotSauceCommittee
Yes social mobiliy is at all time low. As a first generation uni student with working class roots, I can see my own dc struugling to stay in a place we got to cf to their more priviledged mates whose parents can give them house deposits etc and pay for uni. Our dc were at rc desirable unis and rhe difference between our dc and other students being paid for by parents so they come out of uni with no dept was striking.
Apparently ,you need several generations of wealth ,but if it is affected after a first gen student then their dc can go downwardly mobile.

Op..
Yes get them in as good a school as you can .
Get them as wide.experinces as you can.
Its hard , as you, like us may be always always the poorest inntheir group( we had dc in good schools, fought like mad , went without ourselves ( despite prof jobs) to pay for the transport to.that school. For us it mean no or v cheap hols wereas their peers went away each half term skiing etc etc.. bear in mind you may need to deal with this apspect.. as to live a diff ways of life (eg music lessons, coaching) costs .. for richer people it means no dent in income weras we had to go without in other areas.
The reward is well rounded lovely adults. They are aware that they will never have the privillege of thier peers but they do have wider aspirations.
All the v best.

@suggestedlogin

I do encourage my kids and tell them that they can literally do any job within reason and get into any field they wanted tobeith hard work and grit but I'm not sure that enough.

Do schools play a big part?

Yes, I think schools play a huge part.

I went to a private secondary til I was 13, then a crap state comp, and then an excellent state 6th form.

The level of education and expectations at the private school and the state comp were miles apart. Having said that, it wasn't just a private / state thing as my 6th form was excellent.

School really makes a huge difference to your DC's chances I think.

What are your local schools like, OP? And how old are your DC?

i don' t think many people realise how the system works, you only have to read of the pushy parents on mumsnet navigating the system so their children can succeed from a young age. If parents don't understand and the schools don't push particularly the child will just assume that they can't access a successful job/career. I think it's getting alot better now though with entry level college courses, but I think even that is changing...

I grew up in a large family with df on minimum wage (and a gambling habit) and dm working part time.

They were of an age where boys were meant to do well and girls were completely irrelevant so no point wasting time educating them. Their ambitions for their daughters were to work in an office rather than a factory. As what didn't matter, just a regular wage.

Thankfully we had a dedicated primary school teacher who pushed for us to take the 11+. We all got into grammar school, and achieved decent careers.

But it sums up what some families are like, and what some children are up against. It infuriated my df that I went to university when he hadn't. He resented it and tried to block it. And when my dm discovered years later that I earned more than my db, she was equally upset, as if it was an insult to the male.

Family attitudes and bigotry can do lasting damage

Because it seems like it's out of reach. The only ways out of poverty to massive financial success that people really know about are football (for boys) and singing. A lot of other things you need time and money invested in you. And a lot of working class believe they are not academic because there parents are not academic and they get discouraged easily when not given the extra support that might get them to the same level as their peers (because they have the raw materials). Of course that's only naturally bright kids. A lot of middle and upper class people with really average intelligence, average work ethic, etc. Still end up successful. For people who start at a disadvantage the way out is raw talent/intelligence, dogged hard work and usually an element of luck too. Why kill yourself trying to be successful when you can just be happy like your family are? Happy with your basic needs met and a few luxuries like sky tv maybe, or a holiday abroad once a year, or a nice car on higher purchase, or getting your nails done.

@BowerOfBramble

Here are things I think can make a difference:

• talking a lot with your kids, it makes them better informed and more able to be confident around adults. In a lot of jobs being articulate etc is the most important thing.
• research what charities and schemes are around. My mum found out about something called The Sutton Trust which is all about trying to improve social mobility and they gave me a lot of help with aspirations (free trips to unis was one thing that was v cool). Another fab one is a charity called The Girls Network -if you have girls - which is like a mentoring thing where adult women mentor teenage girls about exams and careers and stuff.
• have massively high expectations of them. “You can do any job you want” isn’t the same as “you will go to university and get a fucking cool job” or whatever you would like them to achieve. Be pushy, and helpful.
• make them think about careers in a detailed way. Having A PLAN for something they want to go into and how to get there is the important thing IMO even though what that plan is and their ambitions will change. Having a plan means you’re heading somewhere even if the exact destination changes!
• it’s very hard for those of us who grow up in poorer areas to know jobs are out there, but there are some really good websites that list careers in great detail together with info on qualifications needed etc. I think Prospects is one and there’s a government one too.

This is truly excellent advice.

OP. You are thinking about the problem from the wrong angle. Instead of asking: "Why do the poor stay poor". You should be asking and focussing on: How can my kids get rich".

Stop telling your kids they can be whatever they want to be. This is not true, or I'd be a swimsuit model. You have to work hard.

Be resourceful and use every school opportunity you can to get the best from the free world class education your kids have been given. Once your kid gets into the top set, they'll learn just as well as in any private school

Educate yourself too. Art, music, ancient history, poetry.

I remember seeing a teenage girl on TV who apparently wanted to be a hairdresser, and feeling despair on her behalf. Not because there's necessarily anything wrong with being hairdresser, but because I had a feeling that her idea of available jobs were ones she'd seen women doing, so she was choosing between hairdresser, shop worker, nurse and teacher, and was oblivious to the rest.

My parents were middle class but struggling. As a teenager doing shop and cafe work while overachieving academically, the happiest people I met were those who were making a living but focused most of their energy on family, friends and hobbies.

That was what I aspired to, and although I’m secure in my own house you’d probably have me down as not reaching my potential. I’ve achieved what I set out to do, got what I wanted. Never claimed benefits, never paid higher rate tex.

I grew up on a sink estate and went to a sink school. Less than 20% of my year group achieved 5 GCSEs and A*-C.

I'm friends with people on Facebook that have only ever lived in the same street all their lives. They cannot contemplate life without mum down the road, or sister half a mile away. And they have family close, which is lovely. But they have never walked down Oxford Street tipsy on a Friday night, looking at the Xmas lights. They've never made friends with anyone outside their race. They've never been to the Tate or the National Gallery.

I couldn't live like that. So I left.

@suggestedlogin I know there’s so much to read here but I just wanted to add that you sound like a great mum and you having high expectations for them is so important. My mum always made it sound like a given I’d get qualifications, go to uni, get a good job (she wanted me to become a lawyer which I’m not but I have a fun job which pays the bills). It wasn’t til I was an adult that I realised that wasn’t at all a given or what either of my parents had done! Kids are dim, they’ll follow your lead!

Expose your children to as much of their outside world as possible and don't pander to doing "child" activities every weekend. I grew up in a deprived area and although I was intelligent, I had no idea what kind of things I could do and what was out there. I knew I was bright but I didn't have any support whatsoever. Going to university was as out of reach as going to the moon. Take your children to museums, libraries, science fairs, art galleries. A lot of this is free! And don't fall into the trap that everything has to be magical and child centered and an expensive day trip. Take your children to things and just ask "What do you think of this? What does this make you feel?" Don't ever write off museums and art galleries as boring. Even if it's to giggle at the naked statues, get your kids out there and show them that the world is full of beautiful and cool things. Close that gap between thinking that a life is out of reach for them. It will be an amazing gift.

An example of a family I’m fairly close to - my brother’s in-laws:

FIL grew up poor but passed his 11+ and went to grammar school where he was apparently teased for being poor. Hated it, left school without taking his exams and worked in a foam rubber factory locally for the next 50 years.
Told his kids not to go to uni - “it’s not for the likes of us”. He has three kids - one on the dole, one working for DPD in the warehouse, one works on the lines in a bleach factory. Their whole lives are centred around the estate they live on - GP, schools, family, shops. They only leave to go to work locally, and have never been abroad or learned how to drive a car.
Has grandchildren - one is a room attendant, one works in a shop. My niece is still at school. My brother absorbed all this negativity, and had no ambitions or dreams for his daughter. Despite being bright, neither does she.

My parents pulled themselves up out of Manchester slums through sheer hard work and saving. They are no longer here, and neither is my sibling. My parents would be devastated at how their grandchild was being brought up.

They cannot contemplate life without mum down the road, or sister half a mile away. And they have family close, which is lovely.

This is me, I love having family close by 😆.

Maybe define high aspirations? Wealth isn't necessarily something to aspire to. Kindness, contentment, a joy in pursuing one's interests are more important in my view.