Why do people from poorer backgrounds have low aspirations

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I may not be explaining myself well here so please bear with me!

I've seen on here a few times where it's been mentioned that people from poorer backgrounds / deprived areas don't have higher aspirations. It seems they can do better but don't.

Just wondering why this is and what would help to change it.

Reason I'm asking is I'm from a por background and I still am. I don't want this for my kids but don't know how or what to do to change it.

I have to say, my parents were very hardworking but only my dad worked as there was no childcare in the village. So a family of four on one minimum wage salary.

My parents still were able to buy their house but outright due to sheer frugality and being very risk adverse. They were very well meaning and only wanted the best for us but they didn’t know the best ways to help, or didn’t have the connections, knowledge or experience.

No encouragement from family,
uneducated family undermining their efforts,
low expectations from family
poor school catchment,
nowhere quiet to study (over crowded homes)
too busy working weekends to do necessary homework
no role models

Cultural and social capital play a huge part.
Plus as others have said, what you see growing up is a huge influence.....if everyone around you goes to university then it will be the norm for you to go to university. If you see people around you going into aspirational jobs then you are likely to aspire to do the same.
However, if you don't see that they you might think ' people like me don't do things like that'

Lots of reasons

Cultural capital
Not knowing what jobs exist out there - you know doctor, teacher, plumber but not museum curator, magazine writer, TV lighting director
Not for the likes of us mentality 'that's just for posh people' 'you won't fit in if you go to Oxford'
Lack of financial cushion if things go wrong - desire to have known job with job security
Low expectations of parents and others 'you don't need maths' 'don't want you being a swot'

Media and general culture portraying role models of working class people with limited qualifications doing well as celebs, actors, designers etc.and often working class children hold on to the promise of a dream job (no matter how likely) and don't think qualifications are a concern.

It really is unhelpful for the likes of Jeremy Clarkson to parade his success in the back of minimal qualifications as the working class won't have the advantages of his background. Similarly shows like the apprentice where Alan Sugar lauds his own lack of academic background and a whole of series of candidates who seem to portray a lack of academic success as not necessarily a barrier.

There are so many local working class kids who hold into dreams of becoming the next Mo Salah, Adele, Ed Sheeran etc. for too long underestimating the difficulties of entering these professions. Qualifications based on aspirational arts careers at non elite institutions are proffered to these students upholding this belief.

We need good role models of successful professionals in medicine, law etc to do outreach work.

I' live in a poorer area ,I myself trained as a nurse so I'm not uneducated and we have Doctors , solicitors,and a QC in my extended family ,with the best will in the world Ds1 is just not academic,I will be delighted if he manages a few grade fours in his GCSE,s ,he works hard but some people are never going to be academic ,I do encourage him and I want him to choose the best college course for him ,Mumsnet is obsessed with university,but it is not the be all and end all

@mids2019

Media and general culture portraying role models of working class people with limited qualifications doing well as celebs, actors, designers etc.and often working class children hold on to the promise of a dream job (no matter how likely) and don't think qualifications are a concern.

It really is unhelpful for the likes of Jeremy Clarkson to parade his success in the back of minimal qualifications as the working class won't have the advantages of his background. Similarly shows like the apprentice where Alan Sugar lauds his own lack of academic background and a whole of series of candidates who seem to portray a lack of academic success as not necessarily a barrier.

There are so many local working class kids who hold into dreams of becoming the next Mo Salah, Adele, Ed Sheeran etc. for too long underestimating the difficulties of entering these professions. Qualifications based on aspirational arts careers at non elite institutions are proffered to these students upholding this belief.

We need good role models of successful professionals in medicine, law etc to do outreach work.

But for some teens becoming a Doctor etc is completely unachievable to nobody want ,s to set kids up to fail

What's that saying - you can't be it if you can't see it.
Also you can't afford to train without money - being in the theatre with periods or earning nothing, being an intern in whatever role that really gives you a leg up but no pay.
Some of this thread reads like a bad joke.

I was from a naice area but we had no money as it all went on the mortgage (and my parents fags, although they refute this and say fags were cheaper then. But I’d retort that they smoked double then so the price was the same… ) anyway…

I had nothing. No money for extra tuition at anything. Second hand clothes and bikes. Mostly new toys at Christmas but second hand the rest of the time, like Sindy things or roller skates etc. You know what I mean.

I could presumably have gone to uni but I knew they couldn’t afford to send me. Plus the chance of a job now aged 16 to have money for new clothes and shoes and things my friends parents could afford made me want to work. So I got a job and worked ever since.

I didn’t think I could get qualifications and get more pay in the future. The lure of now was too much as my friends all had stuff I didn’t and I was fed up of having nothing.

So I’d suggest if your dc have similar things to their friends they may not ‘need’ money so quickly and may defer a paying job until after uni/get a part time one.

Here are things I think can make a difference:

• talking a lot with your kids, it makes them better informed and more able to be confident around adults. In a lot of jobs being articulate etc is the most important thing.
• research what charities and schemes are around. My mum found out about something called The Sutton Trust which is all about trying to improve social mobility and they gave me a lot of help with aspirations (free trips to unis was one thing that was v cool). Another fab one is a charity called The Girls Network -if you have girls - which is like a mentoring thing where adult women mentor teenage girls about exams and careers and stuff.
• have massively high expectations of them. “You can do any job you want” isn’t the same as “you will go to university and get a fucking cool job” or whatever you would like them to achieve. Be pushy, and helpful.
• make them think about careers in a detailed way. Having A PLAN for something they want to go into and how to get there is the important thing IMO even though what that plan is and their ambitions will change. Having a plan means you’re heading somewhere even if the exact destination changes!
• it’s very hard for those of us who grow up in poorer areas to know jobs are out there, but there are some really good websites that list careers in great detail together with info on qualifications needed etc. I think Prospects is one and there’s a government one too.

I grew up in a very working class background. My parents’ aspiration for me was that I should go to secretarial college, become a shorthand typist (I am old) and then “marry up.” I was bright; my school wanted me to try for Cambridge. I ended up not going to university, largely because my Dad earned quite a bit of his money “on the black” and “didn’t want them poking their noses into what didn’t concern them.” They didn’t know solicitors, accountants, doctors. My Dad was an electrician and my Mum worked in a factory. So while “an office job” was, in their view, aspirational and attainable, being a solicitor or doctor wasn’t.

I’m now a COO. DH is an engineer. Our kids were privately educated and are now at university - the first generation to go. The rest of my extended family are still in fairly low paid jobs - security officers, working in supermarkets and don’t have any real ambition for their kids.

All my family were university educated so it was a normal step. When my DHs niece went to uni it was treated as a major event in her mothers side of the family.
DS just assumes he will go to uni it is a right of passage in his eyes. In fact he can’t wait to leave home and have a bit of independence.
One thing I have noticed is that parents have differing attitudes. I moved away from home to go to uni and settled in the same area. My family live all around the country. Families I know that are not socially mobile are less likely to be geographically mobile. They value close family and the family unit rather than encouraging mobility to take advantage of opportunities.
Maybe social mobility is related to geographical mobility.
It’s often about encouraging children out of their comfort zone. It does not necessarily involve money but encouraging them to take any opportunity presented.

@Hawkins001

This is just a guess and I may be wrong, but from my experience, it's amix of factors including

Some want easy £ with not much effort
It's party's, drugs, sex,
Basically they see putting effort in to achieve qualifications, learn knowledge, better oneself, as basically to much effort, when compared to them watching daytime TV, or smoking weed, doing drugs, or partying ect

You're wrong. In fact, your post sums up more of my MC/private school educated friends than it does working class/state educated ones.

Education education education and parental steer. Massive generalisation but most aim to emulate their own lives. It is very difficult to break through a barrier if you have no experience / awareness of what else is out there.

@swirlsy

They come from families with no aspirations who are happy as long as they have tele and cups of tea.

Do people really think this?

I mean, I grew up amongst it with some friends parents living like that, so yes, it might sound inflammatory and a stereotype, but it doesn't make it untrue on the whole.

I come from a working class background, noone in my family had ever been to university, or had professional careers. I was an academic child, but wasn't encouraged to make good choices. I wanted to go into childcare- whatever you want love. I ended up pregnant at 18, leaving college and getting a retail job.

In my 20s I gave myself a kick up the arse and did OU while working, changed to a finance job. My daughter did one year at the local secondary, where I could see the 'dont care' attitude set in. She got moved to an all girl's school, I have managed to move us to a middle class town where univesity is expected. She is currently sitting a levels and applying to unis elsewhere.

It was her 18th last week, and we saw family. 2-3 members starting asking why I was pushing her to go away to uni, she could go to our local and stay at home to save money. Why? These are my family and I love them but they all live a 10 minute walk from each other, noone wants to venture away. Noone wants to go do a gap year abroad, or work in another country, or live a year in London for the experience. They don't have that experience, so they don't encourage their children to have it.

She is the only one of a large amount of cousins who is going to uni, or is likely to, or who will live in any other city. Its very sad in too many ways.

The poor are kept down. The middle classes/wealthier people get lots more opportunities.

I'm from a poor disadvantaged background. I grew up essentially in poverty with only one of my parents as the other one died when I was very small. We had no holidays or luxuries, I remember wallpaper falling off the walls, black mould, and very basic things to eat for tea. My surviving parent (my dad) was not university educated nor "high achieving" in the slightest, but he worked long hours to to try and support us and keep the household together. He also instilled in me the importance of education and learning in order to achieve well in life - he pushed and encouraged me academically. I'm now successful in my career, earning well above average, having been to university 3 times including most recently to study for a PhD.

I'm not sure if I'm an exception to the rule. But it's definitely not as straightforward as poor background equals low achieving.

I'm from a very poor and deprived background. I'm the only person in my family to go to university, none of my 6 nieces and nephews have. When one was a teen I asked him whether he had thought about university and his mum snapped 'He's not going to university' and looked at me like I had 2 heads. To her university is for stuck up people and not people like them. It's a hard mindset to change and echos through the generations.

A friend of mine is a secondary school teacher in a not great area and was having a conversation with her class about ambitions, buying a house, money, relationships etc.

So many of the girls just wanted to get pregnant and have 6 kids. When she asked about jobs and money, it was ok because they’d just get benefits. That was it. But that’s what they saw at home, that’s the only thing they knew to do and weren’t being encouraged to do anything else.

I’m from a poor background, I’m fairly successful, have a masters degree, senior position in the NHS so don’t get paid a huge amount, but going from Facebook have done better than most of the people I went to school with.

It’s multi factorial:

-lack of role models
-poor education and lack of support and motivation to excel at school
-lack of support and motivation to excel at home
-uneducated parents, not able to help with school work, uni applications, job applications etc
-lack of confidence to pursue prestigious universities, jobs, grad schemes etc
-lack of financial support, unable to afford tutors, equipment for school, financial support through university or internships etc
-lack of contacts to help with job and uni applications, work experience etc
-no good schools nearby, no assistancewith applications to grammar schools
-snobbery, especially regarding accents, education, parents jobs etc
-lack of money leads to desire to earn money quickly so many leave school and start work instead of going to uni, or work throughout school, college or uni so don’t have enough time to study
-pressure from family to earn money and pay board/rent
-discouragement from family/peers in regards to uni or career choices
-ridicule from peers at school if high achievers
-lack of financial support in regards to inherited money can mean people feel pressure to earn money from an early age rather than pursue higher education so they can afford to buy property
-fear of the cost of higher education
-peer pressure to have kids early

Obviously a lot of these won’t apply to everyone from a poor background, but most of these applied to myself and my friends growing up.

Family and extended network plays a massive part. Twenty years in teaching and I see time and time again smart children underachieve because their family have very low expectations, a poor attitude towards school work and expected behaviour, very little experience beyond their very small world and also, at times actively prevent them achieving by removing them from school, having no consequences for non-attendance or rocking in hours late. Parents just waiting for them to finish school after year 11, get a job and not be their problem anymore.

My parents encouraged me to do my homework and turned up to parents evening but that was about it. My dad expected me and my brother to do well but he didn’t know how we would achieve that or what it looked like. We lived in a market town in Cornwall and dad was ex-military so there wasn’t a lot to inspire us. I scraped into an ex poly after drinking my way through sixth form. Did well in my degree but had no guidance on what to do next. I’ve done OK now, qualified accountant in public sector. I could have achieved so much more with some encouragement from school and family/friends with careers advice and connections.

@Oysterbabe

I'm from a very poor and deprived background. I'm the only person in my family to go to university, none of my 6 nieces and nephews have. When one was a teen I asked him whether he had thought about university and his mum snapped 'He's not going to university' and looked at me like I had 2 heads. To her university is for stuck up people and not people like them. It's a hard mindset to change and echos through the generations.

So out of interest @Oysterbabe, what was it that made the difference in your case, do you think? Can you identify anything which contributed to you aiming higher than others in your family?

I think it's a big generalisation as I know people from wealthy backgrounds who set a poor example to their kids, telling them education doesn't matter, or saying "oh I never understand maths, you're probably like me". Ive also met people from MC backgrounds who only went to university or applied to professional jobs because their parents wanted them to, their heart wasn't in it and they didn't put any effort in.

My mum was from a very poor background, her mum wanted her to succeed and tutored her to pass the 11 plus so that they could go to grammar school. She had minimal education herself but that didn't seem to stop her!