Why do people from poorer backgrounds have low aspirations

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I may not be explaining myself well here so please bear with me!

I've seen on here a few times where it's been mentioned that people from poorer backgrounds / deprived areas don't have higher aspirations. It seems they can do better but don't.

Just wondering why this is and what would help to change it.

Reason I'm asking is I'm from a por background and I still am. I don't want this for my kids but don't know how or what to do to change it.

They are not finished education after school. They have to continue on and get a qualification of whatever kind they want to peruse but they must get one. We speak about them travelling the world and what countries they want to see and try to emphasis they will do all that with their qualification

What if their chosen career doesn’t need further education? Or they aren’t sure what they want to do and want to work for a few years first, when do you tell them enough and they need to go to uni, even if they don’t know what course to do or what will be useful for their future?

How do you plan on forcing them to continue education post-18?

Like i said my parents did this to me and i’ve ended up with a useless degree that’s actually hindered my career and stopped me doing what I want to do. Forcing kids to continue education is just racking up debt, and may not get them that career or well paid job. Especially now with such high debt, you need to have a plan for a career that degree is needed for.

What if their chosen career doesn’t need further education? Or they aren’t sure what they want to do and want to work for a few years first, when do you tell them enough and they need to go to uni, even if they don’t know what course to do or what will be useful for their future?

This is the whole point. Better off parents strongly encourage their offspring to focus on career paths with the highest probable earnings.this typically means post 18 education of some sort.

I think better off parents also focus on a career not as being about following dreams etc but primarily being about earning a good income

Oh and if they've not got an idea of what they want to do by 18 I think a lot of better off parents would feel that was an issue!

If I'm totally honest, I'd find it hard if my kids didn't want to go to Uni. Although if they struggled academically, I'd understand.

My son is studying a subject that will have no direct relevance to the career he wants. I was the same. We're fortunate in being well off so it's also about wanting them to have the Uni experience we had. But when I worked in investment banking, all front office staff were graduates and 90% were lawyers or accountants. I wouldn't have been offered that job without my degree.

I know that employers are trying to level up their recruitment programs to attract people from more diverse backgrounds. Perhaps having a degree won't pay off in the same way in the future. (Yes, I know plenty of people can already very successful without one).

As others have said, cultural capital plays a huge part.

Having positive role models is key. If every successful, professional person you see in the media is a White, middle class male, and you're a black working class girl, you're not going to see those professions as something you can do. I know that is slowly changing, but not fast enough.

These threads do tickle me at times parents from a better off background might think not going to uni is an issue but that’s also how kids from extremely wealthy backgrounds ended up in squats smoking dope for most of the 70s because they couldn’t live up to the parents expectations. The school will support your children in telling you to get stuffed if they don’t consider the path you’re trying to take them down is the best one for their mental health.

I wish schools were supportive of individuals in the way you suggest Bringsexyback. My experience (both ancient, i.e. my own) and current (offspring and nieces) is that schools are more oriented towards getting good results for those students who can achieve them academically, and stuff mental health or personal horizons that may not coincide with getting a student into Oxbridge or keeping up the EBacc stats.

I've been following this thread with interest and, prompted by it, been listening to a few podcasts on social mobility. The pain involved in separating yourself out from a working class family and/or community in order to aspire to and achieve something different is a theme that comes up repeatedly.

Talking of who can be an astronaut, I had the pleasure of hearing
Jose Hernandez talk about how he went from a working class background- parents were migrant fruit pickers so they all followed the harvests around California which meant he got moved from school to school. He spoke about how his parents really valued education and were quite strict making sure he got his work done before he helped them in their work ( which developed his work ethic) but he mainly spoke of the mindset that you have to develop. You have to believe you can do it and that belief is nurtured in you by mainly your parents, maybe a teacher who sees your potential.He was also just really good at math as a kid and the teacher noticed that and encouraged him. He also said it is important to enjoy the journey as you try to get to a big goal. I screen shot the strategy he shared below as I thought it was valuable information.
He was the first Latino astronaut for NASA and now he helps his dad run the vinyard they bought with the proceeds. His five kids missed him having to be in Russia for long training sessions pre-flight and he wanted to be more available to them than his own parents had been. Incredible job but similar problems that many of us face with demanding high responsibility jobs- they take up a lot of time so take you away from your family. So he ultimatley did the NASA thing for a chunk of his life but now in hos 50s he seeks out time with his family as a priority- the very thing that I would say the working class are generally more likley to prioritize over career success on some level- I certainly see that in my own family. Those who got an education moved away from home towns to pursue opportunities and so spent less of their spare time around their families. Now who knows if that is a good thing generally for society? I got educated and was willing to be geographically mobile for job prospects and it took us 1000s of miles from family such that we go years not seeing family and now they are old and sadly starting to die one by one.
I appreciate the better lifestyle our decisions have enabled us to get but I have missed family so much over the years and who knows whether the gains I have gained justify the sacrifice-they will pay off for our kids but then our kids have not enjoyed their grandparents in the way many of my home town childhood friends have pulled off. It depends on what means more to you and I respect people choosing to stay near family and forgo career opportunities- you could say they value relationships more than career and material success.

This is his book and his advice to young people which I screen shot from his talk. The astronaut realised his dream and then he set about using the wealth saved to be around his family and no doubt give his parents an easier life in their old age, admirable in my book- all of it.

"The gravitational pull of the farm was too strong for the former NASA astronaut to ignore."

I think that for some people the gravitational pull of family members they like and get on with is also so strong it usurps other things they may wish to do by creating lives a long way from them- hence why you see people emigrate to beautiful places like Oz and NZ and then they pack it all in to return to the UK, because they miss the people dearest to them. I wonder if some people are more relational than others or they simply have families that they really get on with and so this can inform the choices you make in your life a lot I reckon.
Great conversation, I am learning a lot reading the posts so thank you!

abc30.com/jose-hernandez-wine-vineyard-farmworker/10741022/

His foundation- astrojh.org/

There is certainly a division between people who will not move and those who will. Whether you are ambitious for your children or not neither side is right or wrong. It just is as it is. In the 1890s this family saw education as the route out of poverty and in fact professions rather than other careers as the better route. The fact 4 of my children are lawyers or almost are and I am as was my grandfather's brother and others in the family are and were doctors is just part of that process.

Much better to be stressed and well off than stress out and no money and not sure how to pay the next bill. Having hours to put you your feet and think about your mental health might just give you too much naval gazing time that you inwardly dwell and are less not more happy.

"Much better to be stressed and well off than stress out and no money and not sure how to pay the next bill. "

Even better to have a life with very little stress isn't it?
Obviously, different people have different capacities for stress as well.

@Piggyk2 You're so kind. Unfortunately she'll never be able to accept my accomplishments. She just getting more bitter and cruel about them as the years go by.

I met a very old lady (b.1920?)whose parents had been wc. She was one of only two to get a scholarship from primary school to go to a very good girls’ Catholic school. She went for a bit and loved it but her mother pulled her out, wouldn’t stand for it, said who did she think she was etc. Snatched what would have been in those days a massive opportunity from her. She must have been very clever. What a waste.

Luckily she did somehow manage much later to go to Teacher’s Training College, become a teacher, and then a Magistrate after she retired from teaching.

"Much better to be stressed and well off than stress out and no money and not sure how to pay the next bill. "

You really do not need aspirations that take you to uni to do multiple degrees to be well-off though.

My uncle didn't even go to college, but he's always worked various manual labour jobs with long hours, his wife is a teaching assistant. 2 kids, rent. And yet, they don't want for anything and can afford multiple holidays a year and a time-share abroad in one country. My aunt has just had weight-loss surgery privately that cost a lot of money and they paid for it without loans etc. They don't struggle for money and don't seem particularly stressed either. Yes, my uncle works long hours, but he has always enjoyed being a provider and feels good about himself through his work.

Not everyone is suited for "PHDs and 6 figure salaries", but that certainly doesn't mean you have to be poor and worried about the next bill.

A lot of that comment wasn't even directed at you Xenia, I went off about other things said int he thread.

No problem and all very interesting. I am not stressed and earn a fair bit. I was just saying for those who do have stress it is better to have money and be stressed than not have money and be stressed.

The reason a lot of immigrants want the professions for their children (and our family does) is not just status and the fact on the whole you tend to earn more than someone leaving school at 15 and building up a business, it is just security and certainty. There are more better paid lawyers than super market check out operatives even though the occasional check out person ends up running Tesco or owning a chain of supermarkets. it just improves your odds to have a traditional profession and if you want to leave it later like the lawyer who left law and founded Wetherspoons did and countless others from the pharmacists who left and set up vitamin tablet or pharma empires that is not a problem either was your past professional qualifications are often a very good start for a business career too.

@Xenia but the problem I see with the pressure parents place on their kids to become Doctors/ lawyers/ accountants/ dentists etc is that many of these people actually do not want to do these jobs but are pressurised into it. It's not just about money, it really is about the status of the traditional professions. It certainly is where my DH comes from.

You paint quite a stark contrast, be a lawyer or a work on supermarket check out. You do realise that there are many many professions that are well paid that do not hold the status of the traditional professions. I know many people who earn a lot more than I do as a Dr who work in IT, sales, pharma, the city for some example. Why not let children choose their own path rather than load of the pressure to only do certain jobs? And really why does it all have to come down to how much you earn? I agree it's good to be comfortable, but for many a job that they enjoy is more important than a fat pay check and a job they hate.

Good points and most lawyers even in the City know clients who have built up a massive business and then sold it have many many times the earnings of lawyers and even bankers.

I have loaded no pressure on my 5 children. 4 chose to be lawyers (i didn't suggest that although I adore my job so glad they are doing it) and my brother and father are/were in the same medical specialism (never mind both being NHS consultants).

I just don't think it is a problem giving children the option of professional careers. If they want to do something else that is fine too., My son since he graduated about 10 years ago was a post man for 3 years and since then delivers supermarket food deliveries full time PAYE for a company and hopes to do that for life - there is no pressure from me although if someone really wants to be on £24k or less a year for life that should be an informed choice as that does then have implications for your life.

I adore law so think it is a lovely thing to do. I am very lucky that going to work is like doing a hobby.

My parents' advice was pick work that you will always enjoy (the professions are more likely to give you that than say a factory production line in my view as they are intellectually challenging and medicine and law change all the time so you rarely are bored and learn all you rlife), that ideally pays well and for me quite a big third point -where you can work for yourself. My grandfather worked for himself, my father once he left the NHS did and I have since 1994 and one of my daughters so far does too - that gives you power, freedom and control.

And what's wrong with Status?

Just saying...

Encouraging your kids to do the best they can is not pressure, it's wanting them to have a better life. And there's nothing wrong with that.

After School education is not the only way, but it definitely does help smooth the way...

Encouraging your kids to do the best they can is not pressure

I felt plenty of pressure to go off to uni because my parents thought I should be able to, and lots of shame when I dropped-out because of that.

Like I said before, because society needs them to.

And if this is true, the government is now officially ensuring they stay low, because their underhanded policies and rhetoric doesn't work well enough .

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/gcse-english-maths-failed-student-loans-b2021131.html?fbclid=IwAR3Jjy7xwUnv7FIvGdS2Ky0uJXV2YHWWVjKiQNyRwHoxkgKXbm672dc9sh0

@alwayslearning789

Encouraging your kids to do the best they can is not pressure, it's wanting them to have a better life. And there's nothing wrong with that.

After School education is not the only way, but it definitely does help smooth the way...

Encouraging your children to do the best they can is not a problem and not what I said. My reference was to a pp who mentioned that all the immigrant families were queuing up at the law and medical stalls at her child's school. I was really referring to many old school Asian familes of which my DH comes from as did many of my school friends and many of my colleagues who were pressurised to go into these traditional careers despite not wanting to. If someone chooses to, as I did, of course that's fine but no one should hold their kids ransom to do something that is not right for them and this is often because of the status that these professions hold.

I agree with Xenia about the benefits of working in a professional environment, such as law or financial services. I worked in investment banking and it was very well paid; as I've mentioned, some of my colleagues earned seven figure bonuses due to the fees they brought in. It was very interesting intellectually. In fairness, it was quite stressful at times, particularly presenting to the board of clients when you were a fairly clueless whippersnapper in your 20s.

But people made enough money after 10 years to retire from that type of role if they so chose. Or they stayed and enjoyed the luxury that their salaries paid for. Yes, you can make decent money from the trades for example. Particularly if you expand and run your own business, But it's relative and your odds of earning a very good salary (say £300k plus) are higher if you work in a professional services environment.

I appreciate that money doesn't necessarily bring happiness. But it's good for school kids to know about all their career options, rather than having to narrow them too early. Investment banks are very keen to recruit from a wider range of backgrounds if people are willing to apply.

The reason a lot of immigrants want the professions for their children (and our family does) is not just status and the fact on the whole you tend to earn more than someone leaving school at 15 and building up a business, it is just security and certainty

It's also a case of sticking with what they know gives status and security and portability. There isn't much in the middle between professional and street vendor in some countries. Certainly nothing like the sort of careers a degree in economics from a decent university can offer. Some look at the political instability they have left behind, the struggle to claim asylum or to secure a visa, and realise their children could up sticks and leave far more easily with that MD or QC after their name.