Why do people from poorer backgrounds have low aspirations

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I may not be explaining myself well here so please bear with me!

I've seen on here a few times where it's been mentioned that people from poorer backgrounds / deprived areas don't have higher aspirations. It seems they can do better but don't.

Just wondering why this is and what would help to change it.

Reason I'm asking is I'm from a por background and I still am. I don't want this for my kids but don't know how or what to do to change it.

Why couldn't a mumsnetters child be an astronaut or a future PM one day? Someone has to be.

If my DC wanted to be either of those jobs I'd encourage them and help them as much as I could, same as I would for any other ambition (eg, if DS wanted to be an astronaut I'd sign him up to air cadets).

Sure, it is statistically unlikely they'll be PM or an astronaut but they will have had parents that believed in them, and may well end up in a related career eg, constituency MP or aeronautical engineer.

(My eldest is 5 and currently wants to be a wood chopper).

*100 hours a week

I don't think this should be what we aspire to, spending the majority of our lives working. Nobody should need to work 100 hours a week ever, let alone in their 70s. This is what makes me feel disillusioned with life and the way it works. You get so little time away from study and work really. Even in this thread, we have 70 year olds working 100+ hours a week and children sitting their A-Levels expected to do extra-curricular activities, part-time work alongside it, and could we fit in some volunteering too? It seems relentless and I'm not ashamed to say that participating in that grind is not for me. I would rather have less money than spend so much time studying and working*

You see I think that's poverty of ambition right there. Not the 100 hour week so much, but A level students for example playing for a football team and having a part time job ? Isn't that quite normal ? Most 17 year olds have plenty of energy. I worked 7:30-2 in a nursing home on Saturdays, then went to drama class 3:30-6. Went out Saturday night and studied Sundays, I also swam twice a week and babysat a couple of nights, I was by no means unusual. Three As.

Surely that's just different strokes for different folks rather than any kind of poverty of ambition @Neurodiversitydoctor
Happiness is key surely?

@RantyAunty from poor backgrounds?

I do think the "Do what makes you happy, stay in your comfort zone" is a poverty of ambition.

@Neurodiversitydoctor

I do think the "Do what makes you happy, stay in your comfort zone" is a poverty of ambition.

Why? Are you hearing a meaning in those words beyond their ordinary meaning?

You see I think that's poverty of ambition right there. Not the 100 hour week so much, but A level students for example playing for a football team and having a part time job ? Isn't that quite normal ? Most 17 year olds have plenty of energy. I worked 7:30-2 in a nursing home on Saturdays, then went to drama class 3:30-6. Went out Saturday night and studied Sundays, I also swam twice a week and babysat a couple of nights, I was by no means unusual. Three As

Well good for you. Did you do all that on your own or did your parents encourage you into swimming, drama, your studies? Was your job an addition to your cv or because your family needed the money?

I do agree with the 100 hours a week not being aspirational. I had 3 jobs at one point when I was 18, i’d start in the pub at 6, straight to a night shift in a shop at 11, back to the pub at 7.30 to clean, then bed for a few hours.

Funnily enough though all those hours didn’t get me out of my background, or make me a millionaire, or contribute in any way to a career. It meant I tanked my a’levels, but at the time the money was the important thing.

“Poverty of ambition” doesn’t just apply to the poor and wc. In fact I’d say even less so, as you don’t have the luxury of ambition.

I loved school but my family were broke and uni was never going to be a option so I quit trying no point when you know you can't go

Just to clarify DF doesn’t need to work those hours now, he people working for him that could do it but he genuinely loves doing it. He doesn’t like to be idle

but A level students for example playing for a football team and having a part time job ? Isn't that quite normal ? Most 17 year olds have plenty of energy.

I wasn't expected to get a part-time job, I was expected to focus on my studies. I mentally can't deal with a schedule that's non-stop, never could. I wouldn't expect my teenager to have a part-time job either. To me, adult life is for working, childhood and teenagehood is for studying and enjoying yourself while you still can. If they would like to get a job, they can, I won't block opportunities, but it's not something they need to do at all.

You worked 7.30-2 in a nursing home on saturdays. Amazing. I wouldn't have been our of bed at 7.30 on a Saturday because I would he exhausted by the early mornings for college and the time I spent studying and doing coursework etc. Working and my extra activities would, for me, have meant my grades suffering.

We are not all built the same mentally or physically. I am highly introverted and need time at home to recover from just being outside around people, including friends, otherwise my mental health suffers and I feel overly stressed.

I'm happy with what I have. I am not built for the stress and energy needed to do full-time college, clubs, social activities with friends and families, and work too.

So many times even in secondary school I would blow off seeing my friends because I would rather have been at home reading or sleeping. I'm a night-owl, unfortunately college and school doesn't allow for that.

The schedule you've described you had sounds insane to me, but there we go, I'm different to you. As long as you're happy with your life and I'm happy with mine, it doesn't really matter. I wouldn't want your life and you wouldn't want mine.

The OU used to be a lot cheaper than it is now. I did a couple of stand-alone modules years ago that were very very cheap but the cost now is very high, which, again, puts it out of reach of a lot. Plus you need computer and internet access to be able to do it.

You seriously believe your kid can be PM ?

Plenty can't be achieved either due to lack of physical attributes or intellectual ones.

Or because it's a highly competitive job with few openings and hundreds of thousands of candidates. Not everyone can become an astronaut can they?

Not everyone can become an astronaut but if you set your kids off with the idea that your class/intelligence/application limits you to a couple of roles you are doing them down.

Any monkey can become PM - look at Boris, an Eton schooling to give you the confidence helps but he isn't super brainy or super anything.
There are working class MPs.

Yeah the cost of further and Higher education is do prohibitive now. About 20 or so years ago I did sn Access to Higher Education course part time. It Cost no more that £60 including exam fees.
Now it is several thousand. University was free of tuition fees in my day.

The workload of A levels is much higher now.

My son is autistic and would not be able to cope with holding down a part time job as well as study. His friend did get a job but had to cancel half his shifts in December due to the college increasing/changing his timetabled hours. Those that do have jobs often don't perform as well.

I had 3 jobs at one point when I was 18, i’d start in the pub at 6, straight to a night shift in a shop at 11, back to the pub at 7.30 to clean, then bed for a few hours.

Funnily enough though all those hours didn’t get me out of my background, or make me a millionaire, or contribute in any way to a career. It meant I tanked my a’levels, but at the time the money was the important thing.

It's different for everyone though. @DinosaurDuvet's comment about her DF not liking to be idle really resonates with me. I started working part time at 15 and by 18 I also had 3 part time jobs, working most of the weekend and 1-2 week nights. Because we needed the money. And the more I worked, the more money I got. But I didn't tank my A levels nor did I tank university. What it did do was install an incredible work ethic in me. Maybe that would have happened anyway as like many WC folk, I come from a line of 'grafters'. I land firmly in the 'you make your own luck and the harder I work, the luckier I get' camp. That work ethic got me out of my small Northern village and into a 6 figure salary in the City.

When I look at my cousins, there's a significant split. We all grew up in the same village, same poverty level etc. Half of them left school at 16 but worked incredibly hard and are very successful with their own businesses etc. Interestingly enough, these same cousins also had part time jobs from 16 as they needed the money (we even worked together at one place - there weren't a lot of work options where we grew up). The other half didn't get part time jobs, married early, had kids early, SAHPs with maybe a bit of Avon selling on the side. Their own kids are the same, and married young and had kids early too. I'm trying not to make judgements here but clearly I am. . It will be no surprise when I say that the non-career orientated cousins are the offspring of my aunt who didn't think I should be doing A levels because I was a girl and what was the point? You reap what you sow. They were discouraged rather than encouraged (or pushed even). Know your place. And your place as a working class woman is to have kids and make sure your husband's tea is on the table when he gets home from work. None of this education rubbish.

*That work ethic got me out of my small Northern village and into a 6 figure salary in the City.

Tbh, I would rather live in a small village than the City. I currently live in London and can't wait to leave.

I like the iceberg pictures. On degrees not being free - they are if you never earn above the loan repayment threshold and the less well off (under £25k income) your parents are the higher your annual maintenance loan up to - £9488 outside London and over £12k in London.

That does not mean some rich and some poor people are not put off by the amount of the loan, even though it only works as a 9% graduate tax, but it does mean up front for the less well off you can go to university if you get the grades.

I was encouraged to go to uni etc, it was expected I would be the first in my family to go. I am still doing it, albeit through the OU, but I'm mainly doing it because I want to make my family proud and not disappoint them, because I know how they felt about me not going to a brick uni after college and that makes me feel like a failure -- which is why I don't believe you should push the "when you go to uni, obviously you will be going to uni" narrative into your children, because if, for whatever reason, they don't, they will feel like they've let you down.

But I didn't tank my A levels nor did I tank university. What it did do was install an incredible work ethic in me. Maybe that would have happened anyway as like many WC folk, I come from a line of 'grafters'. I land firmly in the 'you make your own luck and the harder I work, the luckier I get' camp. That work ethic got me out of my small Northern village and into a 6 figure salary in the City

Well clearly you are a better person than me and I just didn’t work hard enough or have a good enough work ethic to hold down 3 jobs and pass my a’levels .

There’s always someone got to put others down.

On the "University is free for low income families" note. My ds went away this year. There was a problem with his loan from SF side and it didn't kick in until 6 weeks after it should have. I was wondering about families in this situation who have absolutely no financial buffer to tide their dc over until then. We had to pay deposit on accommodation, buy him stuff for his room and physically get him there. It's very easy to say it's free, but the thought of extra costs/a contingency fund when you have 30p in your account at the end of the mo th is scary and might make many families feel it is unaffordable.

Do what makes you happy

What’s wrong with doing what makes you happy?
If you don’t you risk spending your entire working life doing something you hate.

@UnevenBooks

*That work ethic got me out of my small Northern village and into a 6 figure salary in the City.

Tbh, I would rather live in a small village than the City. I currently live in London and can't wait to leave.

She’s doesn’t mean ‘city’ in that way. It’s a professional and business term.

@HoveringDonkeyofKnock

Do what makes you happy

What’s wrong with doing what makes you happy?
If you don’t you risk spending your entire working life doing something you hate.

I think this takes us back to the deferred gratification point that was raised earlier in this thread,

She’s doesn’t mean ‘city’ in that way. It’s a professional and business term

And again you highlight the difference between those who come from backgrounds where this is not common knowledge, and those who do.

If you don’t know “the city” as a professional and business term, how do you know that you can aim for the 6 figure salary “in the city”?

@Nomoreusernames1244

But I didn't tank my A levels nor did I tank university. What it did do was install an incredible work ethic in me. Maybe that would have happened anyway as like many WC folk, I come from a line of 'grafters'. I land firmly in the 'you make your own luck and the harder I work, the luckier I get' camp. That work ethic got me out of my small Northern village and into a 6 figure salary in the City

Well clearly you are a better person than me and I just didn’t work hard enough or have a good enough work ethic to hold down 3 jobs and pass my a’levels .

There’s always someone got to put others down.

My comments weren't intended to put you down. I clearly said that everyone is different and just because you found that having to work part time while studying did you no favours, that doesn't mean that's the case for everyone else. For me it had benefits that were more than just financial and that really set me up for the future. That doesn't make either of us wrong or better/worse than the other. I'm allowed to share a different opinion/experience to you.