Why do people from poorer backgrounds have low aspirations

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I may not be explaining myself well here so please bear with me!

I've seen on here a few times where it's been mentioned that people from poorer backgrounds / deprived areas don't have higher aspirations. It seems they can do better but don't.

Just wondering why this is and what would help to change it.

Reason I'm asking is I'm from a por background and I still am. I don't want this for my kids but don't know how or what to do to change it.

Bollocks

I am reminded of a video posted by a man who had started at McDonald's thirty years earlier. He was still happy to work there and was very proud that his daughter had also decided that a McJob was her future.
He didn't strike me as aspirational, but I reconsidered when he mentioned that he owned and operated thirteen franchises.

how do you know that you can aim for the 6 figure salary “in the city”?

I was never interested in corporate/business/finance/management/human resources/IT or any of those things.

When I was very young, I wanted to be a teacher or a newsreader, later I dreamed of working with animals, then as a teenager, becoming a psychologist.

"the City" wasn't really relevant and never came up when I was researching careers that would interest me.

It was also never mentioned at school. I would just look up job titles and see what I liked the sound of. Once I found one I liked, I would look at the qualifications needed and where to study and look on sites like indeed.com searching by the job title.

It just never came up.

My parents were wc and my eldest siblings grew up wc, but by the time I was growing up they'd transitioned to the mc, through moving up in their professions: nursing and accountancy (when nursing was seen as a prestigious career path and well remunerated).

My father had a particularly hard upbringing, think East end of London in 1950s. We all had drummed into us from a young age to get a profession and that work was about making ends meet, not fulfilment/enjoyment (anything other than a profession would not have been countenanced). We did all follow this trend, some of us are happier in our careers than others but we all live comfortably which is all that our parents cared about coming from such dire poverty. This is a trend I see amongst alot of ethnic minority families from the areas we grew up in, getting a profession at all costs that pays well. This was the key to social mobility.

Interestingly some of the next generation that have grown up in relative comfort with little insight into the financial struggles our family endured lack motivation or a desire to pursue a well paid career because they look at our lives and don't want the long days, stress and hard work involved in getting to our position or they want to do something they feel passionately about which for me is like an alien concept when it comes to work.

@ChocolateDigestivesMmmm trades can pay well but there are downsides ( trade related illnesses) too and also not everyone is good with their hands
Also their is a lack of apprenticeships its getting better but for so many years they disappeared.
Also try being a plumber or roofer at 67 , so you need to earn well when young as its not an easy job as you get older , my dad struggled from 60ish with arthritis etc to do his job , luckily he switched to in the office but there isn't enough in the office jobs
By raising pension ages so much there has been little thought about physical jobs

My friend a plumber has had to at 54 give up plumbing - it does the knees in. Now earning not a lot of money.

I grew in up in a fairly middle class area but, similar to another poster, we had no money at all - my parents struggled to pay the bills. It was really very hard a lot of the time and I often used to worry as a child about money.

I did go to a decent state school and worked hard. None of my family went to university- I remain the first and only one. I recognised fairly early on that I didn't want to struggle like my parents.

I read a pure Physics degree and went into teaching. I hold a senior role with a good salary now and I am only 35. DH also went to uni and had a good job (he left full time work due to ill health). Between us, we have managed to save well, own our house outright and still have substantial savings.

However it took a lot of work and determination on my part to make it happen for me. There was no financial support from my family to help me through uni - I got my first waitressing job at 14 and worked part time throughout the rest of my school/college/uni years.

I think it's hard for kids who are from poorer backgrounds to go to university and enter professions because financially, it really is very hard and to be honest, the easier option would be to get a job from school.

There are many, many other factors as well, as mentioned on this thread already.

At parents' evenings at my twins' fee paying day school (which has very few white pupils) the law, medicine, accountancy, dentistry careers fair stands manned by parents of those careers is always full of teenagers and their parents queuing for these professions in particular. I am not surprised. In the 1890s my grandfather's brother did law and his sister qualified as a nurse (not easy to be a doctor for girls in those days). My father and his brother became doctors as is my sibling and I and 4 of my children are lawyers (or nearly lawyers for the 2 who are students). Professions tend to pay better on the whole. Yes you may end up a high paid plumber but a City i.e. City of London or even just London business lawyer is likely to make more than most plumbers if they stick at it, always work full time and particularly if they are made a partner so it is not surprising in professions such as law we have more people who are from immigrant backgrounds in the profession than is represented in the general population because hard working new arrivals know full well the professions are a good choice for their teenagers.

@Xenia

At parents' evenings at my twins' fee paying day school (which has very few white pupils) the law, medicine, accountancy, dentistry careers fair stands manned by parents of those careers is always full of teenagers and their parents queuing for these professions in particular. I am not surprised. In the 1890s my grandfather's brother did law and his sister qualified as a nurse (not easy to be a doctor for girls in those days). My father and his brother became doctors as is my sibling and I and 4 of my children are lawyers (or nearly lawyers for the 2 who are students). Professions tend to pay better on the whole. Yes you may end up a high paid plumber but a City i.e. City of London or even just London business lawyer is likely to make more than most plumbers if they stick at it, always work full time and particularly if they are made a partner so it is not surprising in professions such as law we have more people who are from immigrant backgrounds in the profession than is represented in the general population because hard working new arrivals know full well the professions are a good choice for their teenagers.

You're right a lot of people from other ethnic groups go into medicine and law. I am a medic and my partner is Asian, he is not in medicine. However a huge amount of parental pressure is placed on Asian children to do these professions as they give status within that community. I work with so many Asian Drs many of whom had very little choice and really would have chosen another career path altogether if it were not for parental pressure. My partner resisted parental pressure and his job is really not highly regarded at all by his Asian family but he's happy and earns a decent wage. His sister succumbed to the pressure and hates her job, she's an accountant.

I know what I want for my kids, I want them to reach their potential but I also do not want them to do a job for its status but to do something that either they enjoy or that means something to them. Should they want to earn big money, then there career choices need to reflect that but it should never come from parents pushing their kids down a path they really they are not interested in.

Nicola sturgeon Scottish first minister is not an Etonian or rocket scientist. A failed lawyer I have heard.the Welsh first minister- not sure of his background, but not bred for it.
Ulster leaders - not out of the "top drawer".

Plenty of successful politicians from an average background.

Surely a student loan does not require to be paid back until earning over £24000?

@Trainbear - if only that was so in England. Education for ordinary folk has always been valued more, and much more accessible, with decent financial support in Scotland and Northern Ireland. I'm not so sure about Wales, but given that they're fairly good on support for nursing bursaries and the like, I would hope they'd also be pretty supportive.

In England, meanwhile, almost all of our MPs (of whatever political colour) have pretty much all gone to the "right" schools, the right skiing holidays, and the "right" universities.

Really that means Eton, Harrow, a few other selected and appropriate public schools, and then Oxford or Cambridge. Even "Russell Group" unis (who all pay an annual membership fee for that membership) aren't all that well represented in politics when you think how many graduates they produce).

Where you do get the very occasional politician like Corbyn, or Angela Rayner (or back in the day, Neil Kinnock) from a more ordinary background, they're absolutely villified by the mainstream media.

I mean, not only did Corbyn go to a POLYTECHNIC, he didn't actually graduate - can't have someone like that running the country, wot, wot. I mean, CAN you imagine the horror....No, no, no, far better to stick with posh chaps with the appropriate connections, who can quote Latin at you but have the actual use of a chocolate teapot [though you can, at least, EAT a chocolate teapot...]

@Trainbear, you might have missed the memo, updated 17 January 2022. "You’ll only start making repayments if your income is over the repayment threshold, which is currently £19,895 a year, £1,657 a month or £382 a week in the UK."
(Source: www.gov.uk/government/publications/student-loans-a-guide-to-terms-and-conditions/student-loans-a-guide-to-terms-and-conditions-2021-to-2022)

The truth is, for all their mindless empty blethering and red wall voter pretend pandering about "levelling up", the English government really doesn't want poor kids getting an education. You only have to look at the legislation they're currently considering/implementing.

One of the articles I read today suggests they're proposing making student loans only accessible if you get above certain grades - which effectively makes it far, far less likely that someone from my background will EVER be able to get a degree. Not sure where that leaves access courses... schoolsweek.co.uk/ladder-up-not-levelling-up-dfe-urged-to-rethink-student-loan-grade-threshold-plan/

And since so many other routes - further education, REAL apprenticeships, working your way up, heavily subsidised degrees in Europe - are now effectively blocked, this all has a knock on effect for social mobility.

It's hard, we're a fairly low income family but just high enough to not be eligible for benefits, things like fares for college etc in a few years we will struggle with, we'll find the money of course but it will be tight and I imagine other parents not being able to 😓

I do think that if someone can't achieve a reasonable pass in GCSE Maths/English then it probably means that any degree they undertake will be money wasted. If they never earn above the threshold to repay then it is a debt the country carries.

I will don my flak jacket, but personally, I believe that If more stringent university requirements cut down the number of people doing degrees with little or no merit, that would be a good thing.

@CheltenhamLady

I do think that if someone can't achieve a reasonable pass in GCSE Maths/English then it probably means that any degree they undertake will be money wasted. If they never earn above the threshold to repay then it is a debt the country carries.

I will don my flak jacket, but personally, I believe that If more stringent university requirements cut down the number of people doing degrees with little or no merit, that would be a good thing.

Does it mean both English and Maths for every degree? Someone who is not good at English but a maths genius shouldn't be held back from studying maths further if they want to, and going into a career in eg accounting or engineering where their talents can be utilised.

"@Trainbear, you might have missed the memo, updated 17 January 2022. "You’ll only start making repayments if your income is over the repayment threshold, which is currently £19,895 a year, £1,657 a month or £382 a week in the UK.""

Which is a very modest wage. I took out a student loan just before fees came in (just for ordinary expenses) and I'd need to be earning around 25k before paying it back.

@CheltenhamLady

I do think that if someone can't achieve a reasonable pass in GCSE Maths/English then it probably means that any degree they undertake will be money wasted. If they never earn above the threshold to repay then it is a debt the country carries.

I will don my flak jacket, but personally, I believe that If more stringent university requirements cut down the number of people doing degrees with little or no merit, that would be a good thing.

My GCSE maths was of no relevance at all to my languages degree.

@Mellowyellow222

I am in my forties and was raised by parents who had junior managerial positions.

My mum especially always tempered my ambitions. Always know your place - don’t get carried away, don’t make waves.

She was alienate very intimidated by educated people - and let people walk all over her and us.

I have done well - have a senior position and high income. She always puts me down - acts as if I am very junior - if I say something about work both she and my dad will talk about how I couldn’t possibly be expects to take decisions and manage people etc - that’s my bosses job!

I am a director with a few hundred staff!!

They just believe people should’ve get above themselves - I should live in a certain type of house and drive a certain type of car - nothing too expensive because how could I possibly afford that - I’m just a little girl!

I could have written this. My parents wanted me to do "well" go to a local university, get a "nice little job" in admin and not get ideas above my station. Keep your head down, don't get too big for your boots, never draw attention to yourself.

I'm also a Director responsible for high level people and projects and DH has spent the last 15 years going back and forth between banking and consulting.

We live overseas and my Mum is adamant we should stop getting above ourselves, move home to my village and be a part-time admin and a travel agent. Ambition is frowned upon.

My parents WERE very ambitious me. FSM child, top of my year. They were keen for me to do something like law. The trouble was, we didn't really know the first thing about how to go about it. We did a lot of searching on the Internet but didn't really know where to start. It took us a while to work out what 2:1 meant, as nobody in my family had gone to uni. Sometimes aspirations are there but there are other obstacles too.

My parents WERE very ambitious me. FSM child, top of my year. They were keen for me to do something like law. The trouble was, we didn't really know the first thing about how to go about it. We did a lot of searching on the Internet but didn't really know where to start. It took us a while to work out what 2:1 meant, as nobody in my family had gone to uni. Sometimes aspirations are there but there are other obstacles too

This is the point I’ve been trying to make. It’s not just a lack of ambition or drive, it’s not knowing how to access careers, if you even know those careers exist.

In hindsight my aspirational career would have been radiology, physio, pharmacy, something allied to medicine. I has no idea you went to uni for that. If you’d have asked I’d probably have said a pharmacist was a shop assistant in Boots. I wanted to be a pathologist at one point but didn’t know you needed to do medicine, and even if I did I thought you had to be super clever and work super hard. I didn’t know the grades were actually achievable.

It’s basic things, i also didn’t know what a 2:1 was til my first year of uni. I didn’t know a phd wasn’t a medical dr. I didn’t know academic research was a thing, i thought lecturers were just university teachers.

My parents were very aspirational and insisted I go to uni, and in fact were horrified when I wanted to take a year off and work out what I wanted to do. They thought I’d get used to having a job and money and not go back to being a poor student. So much so I was pressured into going and picked straight biology as I had no clue what else to do. Totally the wrong choice but my parents thought once I had a degree I’d automatically walk into a high flying career with an enormous graduate salary. Not in science anyway

There are lots of barriers beyond aspiration and getting ideas above your station.

Why couldn't a mumsnetters child be an astronaut or a future PM one day? Someone has to be. If my DC wanted to be either of those jobs I'd encourage them and help them as much as I could, same as I would for any other ambition (eg, if DS wanted to be an astronaut I'd sign him up to air cadets).

The issue is when a DC aspires to something that is limiting with few transferable skills, where the outcome is either you make it (unlikely) or you end earning a pittance. Examples:

• football
• being a performer (music, dance, theatre etc)

If your DC wants to be an astronaut, great, you can encourage them to study physics etc. Unlikely to actually become an astronaut, but instead might end up in a decent job in the aerospace or engineering sector.

@allfurcoatnoknickers you would have thought your mum would of accepted your accomplishments by now. You sound like you have done fantastic

Hi OP, it was instilled in us from very young that going to university was just a mandatory continuation of school. I didn't know it was optional until a teenager! It was spoken about as an assumed follow on for us all. My DDad openly spoke about what it would do for us and our lives and what the lack of it had caused in his life. He instilled huge work ethic in us so we had part time jobs from age 13, continuously all through our teens and 20s with no gaps which showed us what the real working world was like and how hard unskilled labourer was, also spoke about travelling the world as if it was just the normal done thing and gave us ambitions about specific countries we wanted to get to. I got into enormous debt to go through uni which was frightening to me and them. And then I travelled everywhere I wanted to ☺️ With my young DC now I try to teach them the same thing. They are not finished education after school. They have to continue on and get a qualification of whatever kind they want to peruse but they must get one. We speak about them travelling the world and what countries they want to see and try to emphasis they will do all that with their qualification