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Just fuck off with this fucking war shit.

256 replies

NaiceHamAndHugs · 19/02/2022 22:19

Why as humans do we never ever learn? It’s always about testosterone and power and oil.

Fuck off with. Why was it possible for so many countries to pull together when COVID kicked off and now it’s back to slapping their balls on the table to see who has the biggest set.

It just all so unbelievably depressing.

OP posts:
ivykaty44 · 20/02/2022 09:24

And in backtracking on this they knew full well what the outcome would be…so hardly faultless

Tabbacous · 20/02/2022 09:33

@ivykaty44

None of this current situation is the fault of the West.

Really? www.thecable.ng/issues-in-the-russia-nato-face-off-on-ukraine

Guarantees were given so why are NATO backtracking on this?

Ukraine isn't eligible to join NATO at the moment anyway, anything is far from imminent despite being in their constitution and being a lite member of sorts. They also have aspirations to join the EU but are also not eligible currently. So what are NATO backtracking on, seen as though they haven't developed an action plan or promised to let them into the fold?
ParsleySageRosemary · 20/02/2022 09:33

Talking about this in terms of Russia and the grievances of a would-be empire on one hand v USA on the other with maybe a bit of U.K. is playing straight into Putin’s hands.

This is about Eastern Europe and the many peoples there who want to maintain their sovereignty in the face of Russian aggression.

I’m surprised there haven’t been some info in the media about the long running history of the region: I’ve seen more background about Yemen.

Adastraperaspera · 20/02/2022 09:34

@travellinglighter- agree with everything you say.
Recent antics in Afghanistan showed the Russians how weak US and Europe are currently. Brexit caused another big rift. However, I think the Germans need to do more in terms of security keeping. They are a powerful country.
Another issue is China. Europe and US need to improve relationships there as well. It is another weakness Putin is banking on.

ollehto · 20/02/2022 09:36

Mrs Thatcher then had the Belgrano sunk to ensure there would be no negotiated withdrawal, it was an argentinian WW2 ship that was outside of the exclusion zone and sailing away from the islands.

Not the old outside the exclusion zone chestnut.

Exclusion zones are for the benefit of neutral vessels, not those belonging to countries at war. The captain of the Belgrano agrees his ship was a legitimate target, as did the Argentine government in 1994.

Though the ship was outside the 200-mile exclusion zone, both sides understood that this was no longer the limit of British action — on 23 April a message was passed via the Swiss Embassy in Buenos Aires to the Argentine government, it read:

“In announcing the establishment of a Maritime Exclusion Zone around the Falkland Islands, Her Majesty’s Government made it clear that this measure was without prejudice to the right of the United Kingdom to take whatever additional measures may be needed in the exercise of its right of self-defence under Article 51 of the United Nations Charter.

In this connection Her Majesty’s Government now wishes to make clear that any approach on the part of Argentine warships, including submarines, naval auxiliaries or military aircraft, which could amount to a threat to interfere with the mission of British Forces in the South Atlantic will encounter the appropriate response.

All Argentine aircraft, including civil aircraft engaged in surveillance of these British forces, will be regarded as hostile and are liable to be dealt with accordingly.”

NETSRIK · 20/02/2022 09:39

And what makes it worse is that our chief willy waver is a liar of a PM who can't even be honest about parties and now he is getting involved in this. What a joke.

Bluebellsunderthetrees · 20/02/2022 09:42

The solution suggested here is
"A settlement for the current Ukraine conflict would be the approved integration of Luhansk and Donetsk into Russia and agreements from NATO to keep rocket weapons systems beyond a ten-minute flight time to Russia, in return for Moscow pulling back troops on Ukraine’s border."

www.russia-briefing.com/news/russia-signs-trade-agreement-with-eastern-ukraine.html/

RedToothBrush · 20/02/2022 09:42

Why don't women go to war as much as men?

Its not because they are less bloody thirsty.

Its cos they rarely end up leaders and because sexism made them largely stay in the kitchen...

Who knows what the next big war for the uk might bring. Quite possibly compulsory female conscription.

Infinitemoon · 20/02/2022 09:54

*I mean Russia are escalating this, we've gone from 100,000 troops on the border to 170,000 - 190,000

I feel so genuinely worried and sorry for the people of Ukraine. I mean we're all sat here in the safety of the UK feeling concerned, can you imagine what it must feel like for a family about 10miles south of the border or something. I'd be absolutely petrified. Poor people.*

You don't think we could also face artillery attacks?! We will be very much in involved in this war, if it continues. We are not removed from it. If we get involved we potentially could be hit.

ivykaty44 · 20/02/2022 09:56

Tabbacous

Strange then that

Ukraine joined NATO's enhanced opportunity partner interoperability program

Even if it supposedly has no bearing on membership

Why would that happen? What exactly would be the point?

turbonerd · 20/02/2022 09:57

It would not necessarily stop Russia if they were given some of Ukraine’s territory.
Romania is worried that Ukraine (and then Moldova) are stepping stones to Romania and towards full control of the Black Sea.
When even Sweden are mobilising their military and the Baltic countries are pleading for the West to pledge support, there is something else afoot than Boris trying to Get away with parties.

Infinitemoon · 20/02/2022 10:09

artillery by which I mean air strikes in UK etc and loss of life to our Armed forces overseas.

Rewritethestars1 · 20/02/2022 10:10

The comments about 'they' this and 'they' that, who exactly are the 'they' here. Its been really helpful reading the comments as I freely admit I'm not knowledgeable on all this, but the 'they' are the bat shit leaders, of course, obviously. I understand the need to act in these circumstances but the everyday people don't want this. The mums and dads, the shop keeper, the kids, the regular folks. Its all well and good saying they want this and they need to do that but its the everyday people who suffer and the everyday people do not want war and conflict. Why can't they just fuck off. Why can't they stop throwing the everyday people literally in the line of fire for what they want. I know that's naive and simplistic and world peace will never happen but I really wish the they would fuck off.

Tabbacous · 20/02/2022 10:15

@ivykaty44

Tabbacous

Strange then that

Ukraine joined NATO's enhanced opportunity partner interoperability program

Even if it supposedly has no bearing on membership

Why would that happen? What exactly would be the point?

Because Ukraine has sent troops to support NATO missions and is seen to largely support the same aims. Whilst they cant join NATO, it gives them access to collaborate on training (we have been helping to train their military for a few years now), opportinity to take part in joint exercises, and access information to help them build in strength as a nation. They are not under any obligations that member states would be (which also means they aren't guaranteed the same protection on the flip side), and whilst it had no bearing on membership its beneficial to them and they aren't the only country who have the same type of agreement in place. So what do you mean what's the point? What's strange about it? It's not contravening any agreements Russia strongholded countries into agreeing to, and helps them build in strength through what's been a turbulent time for them.
Acidburn · 20/02/2022 10:18

Russian here (living in the UK). This whole situation is a bloody nightmare. Just to answer to some previous posters - no, we don't all support Putin. I left the country 15 years ago, and it was the best decision I have ever made. There is no freedom of speed left in there, some of the people I know have been arrested for simply voicing their opinions on public matters. At the same time - I am utterly fed up of nearly every British person asking me lately whether I am pro Putin or not, like I am somehow responsible for all of this. I am also tired of hearing shit about Russian people. We are not all brainwashed or mega rich washing our money in the UK, some of us were simply unlucky to be born in Soviet Union.

Getoff · 20/02/2022 10:30

Why don't women go to war as much as men?

Bit of a digression, but an interesting explanation as to why males are the risk-takers is that they are more disposable. If all the fit adult men in a village are killed, the remaining men who were too young or old to fight can easily impregnate as many women as necessary, ensuring no long-term damage to population size. If all the fit adult women are killed, the remaining girls/women are not going to give birth to twice as many children as they would otherwise have done.

ivykaty44 · 20/02/2022 10:33

Tabbacous

And you don’t see any of these moves an attempt to join forces? Which would be seen by Russia as a threat

It’s all innocent that Ukrainian and NATO are working together and Ukrainian has joined NATO enhanced opportunities

Other countries that are also in the same position are they also geographically located?

notimagain · 20/02/2022 10:38

@Infinitemoon

artillery by which I mean air strikes in UK etc and loss of life to our Armed forces overseas.
I think we need a strong cup of “keeping calm” and a sense of proportion TBH.

Whilst an attack by Russian forces on Ukraine territory is far from trivial it does not mean and does not inevitably mean air strikes on the UK…

That’s pretty much an end of days scenario and we are nowhere near anything like that as far.

@Acidburn

Hope it works out OK for you and you don’t suffer too much nonsense.

ATB.

Getoff · 20/02/2022 10:45

@ivykaty44

None of this current situation is the fault of the West.

Really? www.thecable.ng/issues-in-the-russia-nato-face-off-on-ukraine

Guarantees were given so why are NATO backtracking on this?

That article is ridiculous. The cold war is over, everything it references is irrelevant history.

Guarantees given to the Soviet Union became void almost immediately afterwards when the Soviet Union ceased to exist.

Tabbacous · 20/02/2022 11:15

@ivykaty44

Tabbacous

And you don’t see any of these moves an attempt to join forces? Which would be seen by Russia as a threat

It’s all innocent that Ukrainian and NATO are working together and Ukrainian has joined NATO enhanced opportunities

Other countries that are also in the same position are they also geographically located?

But this is the issue, so Ukraine should be bullied into remaining vulnerable and not being in a position to defend their country if needed because putin might get upset? Do you think everyone should continue to appease him at the expense of other countries as its easier for us?
Alexandra2001 · 20/02/2022 11:23

The UK Govt is definitely feeding the narrative of "war is going to happen"
Truss last week predicted last Wednesday as the attack day, Cleverly today says attack is "very very imminent"

Together with the UK will issue the harshest ever sanctions! Does that mean the UK will rescind 1000s of Russians given uk citizenship (with zero checks) and return millions received by them in donations?

ParsleySageRosemary · 20/02/2022 11:23

If you’re happy to see the sovereignty of Ukraine swallowed by Russia to appease the wounded who of an imperial dictator, who next? Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia? Poland? Finland? Sweden? All live under the threat of Russian aggression. Perhaps Denmark and Norway? The next stop on that path is us.

The EU as a collective group of small democracies was set up after the world wars precisely to stop the destruction and ruination caused by innumerable would-be dictators on power trips. As were the principles of free-flow of information and true education.

ParsleySageRosemary · 20/02/2022 11:23

Wounded who? Ego.

ChardonnaysPetDragon · 20/02/2022 11:26

That article is ridiculous. The cold war is over, everything it references is irrelevant history.

Why did the Cold War end? Because of the reassurances given to Gorbachev. Remember him? And what happened to those reassurances? Fuck all happened.

Guarantees given to the Soviet Union became void almost immediately afterwards when the Soviet Union ceased to exist.

Well, that's wrong and that's why we're we are now. Is Russia right to do what they are doing? No. But I can see why they are doing it.

We need to work with them, instead of pushing them in a corner, but we're not. Russia has always been paranoid about being invaded. Gorbachev is now seen as a traitor in his country, because ordinary people feel he broke up the Union for nothing, and we'll be picking up the pieces, all of us, here in the West and ordinary people in Ukraine and Russia.

Alexandra2001 · 20/02/2022 11:33

@ParsleySageRosemary

If you’re happy to see the sovereignty of Ukraine swallowed by Russia to appease the wounded who of an imperial dictator, who next? Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia? Poland? Finland? Sweden? All live under the threat of Russian aggression. Perhaps Denmark and Norway? The next stop on that path is us.

The EU as a collective group of small democracies was set up after the world wars precisely to stop the destruction and ruination caused by innumerable would-be dictators on power trips. As were the principles of free-flow of information and true education.

Sovereignty doesn't need to be swallowed, this not Nazi Germany and Sudetenland. Russia has suffered horrendous invasions over the last few centuries, 24m died in WW2 and that was after signing a peace pact with Hitler.

How about Ukraine doesn't join NATO, Putin withdraws forces, with the sanction that if he does, Ukraine will be given immediate NATO membership and the art 5 guarantee ?

The West is talking up war, with Truss saying Putin wont stop at Ukraine, this fucking ridiculous war mongering.

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