Just fuck off with this fucking war shit.

[NaiceHamAndHugs]

Why as humans do we never ever learn? It’s always about testosterone and power and oil.

Fuck off with. Why was it possible for so many countries to pull together when COVID kicked off and now it’s back to slapping their balls on the table to see who has the biggest set.

It just all so unbelievably depressing.

Just don't forget Johnson is a cunt and this is the perfect distraction for him. He will go to war and risk the lives of innocent people as soon if it means he isn't fired

That Mearsheimer video is about the 2014 crisis, not this one.

TBH though I don't think sabre-rattling from Biden and Johnson is helpful, this is not the west's fault. Putin is playing the blame game--"you're making me abuse you".

Russia illegally annexed the Crimea and effectively controls the Donbas region though puppet separatist states. What this is really about is that Putin, and other right-wing Russians, do not believe in the legitimacy of the Ukrainian state and people. This has long roots in Russian history.

Lots of conflicts going on round the world that we don't get involved with. As Blair's Iraq adventure shows, wading into the middle of other people's (complex) issues doesn't generally make things better.

People should look up the history of the Russia Ukraine region. This is a conflict and tensions that go back a long way. And I don't mean just since 1945 (or even 1845). You'll see too how the 'good' guy can swap into the "bad' one at different points of time (Ukraine has a messy relationship with WW2 nazi support, but then they suffered from USSR actions. It's not a simple black and white, good vs bad history).

Another war - particularly an international one won't solve this centuries old conflict.

And actually, not always, but leaders of all types - including dictators - can and have done diplomacy. It doesn't matter if somebody is a good guy or the 'baddie'. Self interest and pragmatism is not the preserve of the 'good guys'.

Whether diplomacy will work in this case is another matter.

Russia illegally annexed the Crimea

The situation is not the same but like NI, it isn't as simple as good/right vs bad/wrong. Crimea has a very large ethnic Russian population.

It's complicated. And goes back a long way.

I'm not saying 'yay Russia'. It's just that it's a very old and messy and complicated history of tensions. And us/Boris (no doubt clumsily) wading in won't likely help.

But also, where's the money coming from, for us to get involved? We're told we haven't got enough for social care, the NHS, pensions, the disabled. We can't afford a war.

Everything Boris is saying things to hype it up is just an attempt to cling on to his job. The sooner he goes the better. If he was in charge during a real WW the whole country would be bankrupt by the end of it.

You need to read some history books and stop your political prejudice affecting your brain coz at the end of the last WW we were totally broke. In fact the only country to strengthen their financial position was the Americans.

The current situation is totally down to Putin and the comments Boris made came from a joint briefing with Biden. Personally I like to be kept informed as a war on that scale would send shockwaves right through the international community and send energy prices sky high, which is what Putin wants. And the last person I'd have any confidence in if there was conflict would that be Starmer. He'd do exactly what the Europeans told him to do, only as the Germans are totally reliant on Russian Gas would probably entail him apologising to Putin for being part of NATO.

It is a man thing imo. Women are just less biologically programmed to fight each other. And a lot of the shitty women leaders there've been through history had to go by a patriarchal playbook to get/stay in power at all. That's not to say women can't be bad people obviously. But less inclined to violence on the whole.

I think there's a lot of countries around the world that haven't experienced much unity or co-operation from others over covid.

@SomePosters

The bbc stirring up fear and alarm… what are they trying to distract us from now?

Do you have family in Ukraine? I do. It's a grave situation over there. Do you know how many Russian troops are at the border? Do you understand how unstable Putin is?

What Russian apologetics is this? The annexation of the Crimea is not recognized by international law. It is illegal. Yes, many people in Crimea are ethnically Russian... and one of Putin's tools has been to inflame tensions amongst ethnic Russians in Ukraine. You're trying to muddy the waters and both-sides this issue.

@FourChimneys

Anyone else wish more women were in charge of the world? There would be far less willy waving for a start.

I said the same thing to my husband tonight. It feels like we are always at the mercy of toxic men and their fragile egos.

It's making me very angry right now.

I also believe that this is a blessing to Boris Johnson and he will use it as a convenient distraction.

I still think the real situation is potentially very dangerous too. Both things can be true at the same time.

@FourChimneys

Anyone else wish more women were in charge of the world? There would be far less willy waving for a start.

Not really. Two female PMs in my lifetime and they were just as bad if not worse.

“Anoooshka

SomePosters
The bbc stirring up fear and alarm… what are they trying to distract us from now?
Do you have family in Ukraine? I do. It's a grave situation over there. Do you know how many Russian troops are at the border? Do you understand how unstable Putin is?”

How horrible and worrying that must be for you. I can’t imagine how scary it must be. I really hope they stay safe from harm.

Johnson is a cunt but the threat of a Russian invasion is very real and I really think that a lot of people need to realise that.

@FourChimneys

Anyone else wish more women were in charge of the world? There would be far less willy waving for a start.

Yes. This

That Mearsheimer video is about the 2014 crisis, not this one.

Mearsheimer was talking soon after the 2014 crisis in the video about what was happening in the years leading up to it. This info still applies. Mearsheimer last week has said the only way he believes this can be resolved is with the U.S. and NATO saying that Ukraine will not become part of NATO. He says the Russians want it in writing. And he thinks this crisis will go away once this happens. I appreciate others may not agree with him but his insights provide one perspective.

Anyone else wish more women were in charge of the world? There would be far less willy waving for a start.

Totally.
It's because men rule that we are in a total mess. If women had an equal voice the world would be a better place.
But special holy books have given men permission to be in charge.

@NaiceHamAndHugs

Lots of countries did seem to be able to agree, perhaps not unite in one big smiling happily ever after, but communication actually seemed to be possible. Why does it ALWAYS come back to dropping bombs?

I don't think the world has come out of the pandemic very well at all. There has been a total absence of us all pulling together to get on top of the virus and vaccine inequality will I believe still prove fatal for many and disruptive for billions. We should do so much better.

This is why we maintain a military force

There are wars going on all the time, and always have been.

Deplorable as that is, it's part of the human condition.

And how does one stop a military superpower from acting to restore its sphere of influence/empire/soviet union? Restoring itself as a superpower in the fuller sense of the term?

China won't act (long term opposition to American hegemony), NATO has said it won't go to war over Ukraine.

So the consequence of non-belligerence is that Ukraine becomes Russian again.

Is that what's wanted? War avoided, but at what price?

But special holy books have given men permission to be in charge

Not in Russia, which has been secular for over a century - Soviet Union essentially outlawed religious (seizing assets and persecuting adherents) and even since break up, it has not been a major factor in government, policy making or much of society.

@FourChimneys

Anyone else wish more women were in charge of the world? There would be far less willy waving for a start.

Mrs Thatcher took us into the Falklands, she was extremely triumphant about it.

Harold Wilson kept us in the UK out of Vietnam, thank goodness.

My goodness, I sincerely hope there is no war, we have to rise up in protest, by 'us' I mean people all over the world, including the armed forces. If they all downed tools, that would be something.

A war of such large scale would be totally devastating.

I'm hopeful that it won't happen.

It's bullshit, but we are partly at fault for becoming so reliant on Putin for gas. Imagine we had poured all the money we spent on tearing up Afghanistan and Iraq into clean energy.

Uk and USA are the biggest warmongering countries in the world always sticking their noses in where it isn't wanted.

It's these two I'd be more worried about than Russia.

It's not us who are reliant on Putin for gas. It's mainland Europe.

But of course that will have an enormous effect on the sector as they seek alternative supplies

Russia's biggest export is oil have you seen the oil price since this kicked off

It's almost up to $100 a barrel

Quite convenient for Russia don't you think.

Mrs Thatcher took us into the Falklands, she was extremely triumphant about it

The Islands, a British dependent territory, had just been invaded. I don't think she arranged that as a causus belli!

It's possible that the invaders miscalculated, and thought that a woman wouid not have the 'stomach for war' and would not mount an effective defence