To think women are women's worst enemies for equality?

[CherryBlossomTreee]

I've just got a new job at a senior level. My new secretary has emailed to work out some logistics before I start and to introduce me via cc to the rest of the secretarial/admin team. At the same level in the company are 3 men, who I'll call Mr Big, Mr Bigger and Mr Biggest. I am replacing Mr Big.

It appears in this company the convention is to call the seniors by their surname - so throughout the email she writes of Mr Big, Mr Bigger and Mr Biggest. However, when I am mentioned, I am Cherry rather than Ms BlossomTreee. For example 'When Mr Big leaves, Cherry will be taking over the X account. Mr Biggest will have the conference room for team meetings on Mondays and Wednesday lunchtimes, Mr Bigger will have it on Tuesday lunchtime and Cherry can choose between Thursday and Friday when she arrives - Mr Big always had it on Thursday'

Now, I would much rather my secretary called me by my first name. But when introducing me to a wider group, some of whom I will be managing, it feels incredibly undermining to use my first name if the convention is all the seniors are known by their surname.

I know from past experience if I try and adjust it so I am also known as Ms BlossomTree rather than Cherry, I will be seen as 'difficult' and it will make my working relationships harder, and since I will partly be working remotely (as the others do too) this would be especially challenging. So, I will just have to suck it up, breathe deeply and once again prove that I am as good as those whose ability and seniority is instantly accepted by grace of them having a Y chromosome.

I am just so sick that in the fight for equality it often seems to be other women who do a lot of the undermining.

Anyone have any soothing words?

@saltedcaramelanything

Congratulations on the new role.

That is really frustrating. But I think I would drop an email - or Teams message - to your secretary to say you're happy for her to call you Cherry, but would appreciate if in company comms she refers to you as MsBlossomTree, as with Mr Bigger & Mr Biggest

Yes this.

I’d add to double check w her they are really called Mr in the company though, because I literally haven’t heard that since the 90s.

I agree with @QuirkyTurtle. I have recently moved from a legal sector role which was very formal to a 'big 4' and everyone is known by their first name. It is taking me a long time to get used to how informal all their communication is from CEO down and also when corresponding with external clients

I've only worked somewhere the seniors were addressed by surname in another country and twenty years ago.

I currently work in a global organisation and there are still some countries / nationalities I deal with where it is considered polite / respectful to refer to someone as Mr/Ms Surname in public / until they tell you otherwise.

Although even they have progressed beyond referring to "secretaries". I thought that had stopped a long time ago!

I cannot think of any organisation where senior people are referred to as Mr/Ms and juniors are not. As for “secretary” I didn’t think that has existed as a job title since the 90s

@MorningStarling

On the wider point, yes women are their worst enemies for equality. Most women don't seem to grasp the fact that we could get equality almost overnight if that's what we actually wanted. Most men could be won over if they thought we wanted equality. That's why feminists find their progress so slow, women's rights is seen as feminism, get feminism is not about equality. You get equality through seeing people as equal.

@MorningStarling

Speaking as a woman who has done quite well in a competitive, insecure, long hours industry, which interacts with a lot of other industries.. you are talking screaming bollocks. The way society works and perceives people, is build around inequality (of all sorts).

🥇 have the internalised mysoginy award for the thread, and think about going away to educate yourself.

I think it is good to discuss with her and can be sorted out.

Women are not women's biggest enemies in gender equality, though. It is unfair to blame your secretary for the sexism she has internalised as an oppressed individual within a patriarchal society. The honos for change remains with the oppressors I.e. men.

*onus

@HundredMilesAnHour

I've only worked somewhere the seniors were addressed by surname in another country and twenty years ago.

I currently work in a global organisation and there are still some countries / nationalities I deal with where it is considered polite / respectful to refer to someone as Mr/Ms Surname in public / until they tell you otherwise.

Although even they have progressed beyond referring to "secretaries". I thought that had stopped a long time ago!

But is that the case at all levels?

I get where you're coming from although I always make a point anywhere of correcting to my first name as I've no time for antiquated things like that. Always felt it was a superior type of thing to do, in a negative way, as if it almost makes a person more important. It really doesn't in my opinion.

Could it be that your secretary is fed up and being passive aggressive against the antiquated titles and possible male arrogance of Mr Bigger and Mr Biggest but has faith because you're a woman and hopes you'll lead the way out of unnecessary titles by using your first name since you're new.

@girlmom21

But is that the case at all levels?

No, senior (or mid-senior) only pretty much. No-one really cares about the more junior ranks to be frank.

Surely it is about maintaining the consistency of naming convention.

If Mr Big/Bigger/Biggest are the terms of reference for the men then you are Mrs CherryTree. Not solely a question of equality - just keep the same naming convention for everyone.

Yes, I prefer using first names but if it is convention to use surnames that is followed for everyone. Make sure you end all your emails as Mrs CherryTree.

[quote HundredMilesAnHour]@girlmom21

But is that the case at all levels?

No, senior (or mid-senior) only pretty much. No-one really cares about the more junior ranks to be frank.[/quote]
That's awful!

I can’t imagine that culture and would hate it

But you’ll have to join in via the PA too so they need to change, or try and change the lot

What industry is this OP?

What would posters prefer to "secretary" then? That's still a job title where I work. What is wrong with it?

@formalineadeline

What would posters prefer to "secretary" then? That's still a job title where I work. What is wrong with it?

I haven’t heard it for years. Executive Assistant is most commonly used where I’ve worked.

Good grief if you can't manage this little thing how will you have any authority in your new role?

@formalineadeline

What would posters prefer to "secretary" then? That's still a job title where I work. What is wrong with it?

Administrator.

Sounds like the company is 30 years behind 99% of the rest of the workforce in terms of using Mr/Mrs, so perhaps it is it is behind in equality also.

It’s a reach to think that this very unusual thing that’s happened to you, is evidence of sexism more widely.

@formalineadeline executive assistant or administrator. Occasionally personal assistant.

I work on an all male team in an almost all male office. I'm the only female performing my role. Male dominated industry.

Woman joins the team in a clerical role. All very welcoming.

Upon being assigned some tasks, she got upset and called a meeting to say she felt jumped on and perplexed at having questions asked about the tasks. She didn't complete any of those tasks. She told her manager she didn't have enough to do - possibly enjoying being the victim, as the work is sat right there undone - and they gave her more, so now she's upset she's 'swamped'.

We just sort of sit there side eyeing each other trying to figure what to do with her constant sniffly 'upsets', tears, complaining, and the tasks she won't even start. It's so embarrassing. And yes. I do think uncharitable things about her 'letting the side down.'

I think anybody demanding that people call them up their title in the workplace is completely up themselves, unless they are a medical doctor. Sounds like Misters Big, Bigger, and Biggest are that kind of tool and your secretary was giving you the benefit of the doubt in assuming you were a reasonable person not a power tripping egomaniac like them.

In local government I used to work very closely with councillors. Some of them would have been close friends outside work but when I referred to them in meetings or in emails they were always Councillor White etc. It would have given a significant message in terms of equality if I'd called one councillor Michael and another Councillor White. It was a constant balancing act and titles were really important.In your case it looks like you would infer a lack of respect or authority if you're called by your first name.
Have an open conversation with her about this, it's probably not occurred to her.

Agree with some posters. I would challenge the culture of calling anyone by a title. That way you subtly point out the inconsistency but all look like a real people person. Say something like:

I notice the culture here seems to be to use titles for senior people rather than first names and that doesn't feel very inclusive.

Send it to Mr Bigger and Mr Biggest but make sure you use their first name.

@nosyupnorth

I think anybody demanding that people call them up their title in the workplace is completely up themselves, unless they are a medical doctor. Sounds like Misters Big, Bigger, and Biggest are that kind of tool and your secretary was giving you the benefit of the doubt in assuming you were a reasonable person not a power tripping egomaniac like them.

Why are excluding medical doctors from not being up themselves and power tripping egomaniacs?