Do most Teenagers do drugs?

[Oslosunshine]

DD is 17. She was at a party last night and I got a call from her as it got shut down by the police. One of the girls at the party was taken to hospital in an ambulance after an overdose. Today I had a chat with the mum of the boy who’s party it was and she was, to be expected, incredibly frustrated as she had to fly back to deal with the fallout. Thankfully the police were only really fussed about the noise after the neighbours complained and nothing is being taken further.

However, this prompted me to speak to my DD about why drugs should be avoided and about being sensible etc. DD got very defensive and told me that everyone does drugs, ‘MDMA is safer than alcohol’ and lots more to that extent.

I was incredibly shocked- I know DD smokes (both cigarettes and weed) and whilst I would prefer her to stop, she’s 17 and like most of my peers, I did the same at her age. However, I knew absolutely nothing of the hard drugs and how common they are with her friends.

DH is also worried but sees it as an almost given. He went to a similar school in London to hers and was in a similar ‘scene’ when he was younger and confirms that it is very much the norm.

Mum of the party boy agreed that coke, ketamine, MDMA are all very normalised with their peers and thinks the best course of action is to educate them on dosages, rather than pleading with them to stop.

I feel so naive; I feel as if I have failed my daughter by bringing her up in this privileged inner city London environment where most of the DC have the money for these expensive drugs. But DH thinks it’s not our fault and that this happens everywhere. It certainly didn’t happen on this scale when I was growing up in a less privileged, more suburban area.

Is this normal for teenagers everywhere/ was I just incredibly sheltered growing up?

@MondayYogurt

So what's the safe dosage of fentanyl for a teen?

0 is the safest doses.

everyone's opiate receptors in their brain respond to differently on a individual basis. What one person can tolerate is enough to push another person in to a OD and respiratory failure. Unless you plan to send your teen out with Naloxone, which when used appropriately and in a timely manner can reverse a OD but again is not a 100% fail safe for opiate usage.

So I'd go with 0 is the safest.

[quote downtonabbeyfan1234]@StScholastica are the other parents doing the right thing would you say?

@velvet24 I believe weed is safe as long as you only use it occasionally. Too much as it causes psychosis.

Now I've been wondering something. What's teen drug/weed/alcohol use like in the states? I know now that you need to be 21 to buy tobacco, weed. And it's been 21 for booze for a few decades.[/quote]
Can you show me medical evidence as you are making out too much causes psychosis in everyone, it is advised for those with certain MH conditions such as ptsd and sleep issues. Everyone is affected differently?

[quote Oslosunshine]@JudyGemstone
Could you explain a bit more, sorry I know it’s a little bit off topic but I’m really interested. So Blair shut him down as he didn’t want to open up the can of worms re mdma?[/quote]
Prof Nutt is one of the leading researchers/authorities on the effect of drugs. He was appointed drug tsar but then swiftly unappointed when his evidence-based recommendations did not suit Blair politically. For example he correctly pointed out that MDMA was safer than horse riding. That doesn't fit with the whole ineffective "war on drugs" type political policy that has been going on for decades. A lot of the electorate are anti drugs because they don't understand them (why would they if they've just been told they are "bad" and to "just say no" for generations), P Nutt was trying to actually align policy with the facts - up to date evidence based research. But that isn't likely to win any votes (you can't change minds that quickly) so out he goes.

Not all, of course, but many. Think damage limitation may be your best bet. It’s fortunate that your teenager is being open enough to discuss this with you, and yes she may be naive and may not be being entirely honest, but it’s a starting point. I’d try to talk to her about how she knows what a sensible dosage is (druggy friend of mine always watches others take unfamiliar pills etc first, then waits a couple of hours, then if they seem ok she’ll start with a smaller dose than they had and only have more once it’s kicked in and she’s happy with the way things are going), and what to do if things get out of hand.

The other reason David Nutt did not last was the alcohol lobby. He (and an international panel of scientists) undertook a very thorough multi-criteria analysis to rank recreational drugs according to the harm they do to the user and to society. It was published in the Lancet. Alcohol was the most harmful, ahead of crack and opiates. MDMA barely registered. The Daily Mail hit the roof. The alcohol lobby was terrified.

[quote Oslosunshine]@Pyri
If that’s the case then how on earth does my DD get hold of them? She said ease of access is one of the reasons why they are so common.[/quote]
She will buy them from a dealer at school of course.

@AuntyBumBum

The other reason David Nutt did not last was the alcohol lobby. He (and an international panel of scientists) undertook a very thorough multi-criteria analysis to rank recreational drugs according to the harm they do to the user and to society. It was published in the Lancet. Alcohol was the most harmful, ahead of crack and opiates. MDMA barely registered. The Daily Mail hit the roof. The alcohol lobby was terrified.

Ecstasy is actual being trialed by the nhs to be used as a highly effective anti depressant and anti anxiety medication. The risk from alcahol is way more than anything like that from a small dose of mdma

I didn't do drugs as a teen. I smoked and drank alcohol and went clubbing from 15, but despite being in with what were deemed to be the "bad crowd" no one took drugs. I've tried weed and didn't like it. It was my older sister that had me trying it. Meanwhile she is the one at pushing 50 years old still has a drink and drug problem. both her son's have drug addictions and the youngest was booted out of several schools for dealing, now he just sits on his backside waiting to be handed life on a platter while dealing with the addiction and a serious anger issue. Drugs in particular have ruined her life.
I have a DS who is almost 14. He speaks about kids at school who vape and smoke. I asked him if anyone in his year group did drugs. He said a couple say they do but he doesn't think it's true, it's just chat. He's seen how lives have been ruined through drugs and I don't think he'd go down that route. His friends seem to have their heads screwed on too.

Ecstasy is actual being trialed by the nhs to be used as a highly effective anti depressant and anti anxiety medication. The risk from alcahol is way more than anything like that from a small dose of mdma

It's interesting, yes I did know this. David Nutt is at the forefront of this research too. Also the therapeutic use of psychedelics. It's called microdosing.

@FailureToLurk

I'm just gonna traumatise DS at about 14/15 by letting him watch trainspotting. I'm also going to start telling him my daily sights and sounds.

Open infected wounds from injecting sites that smell like nothing I've ever smelt before. I'm going to tell him the horror stories of dealers cutting mdma and coke with rat poison, baby talc, paracetamol and chaulk. I'm going to tell him how it can only take one wrong dose/pill to OD. I'm going to tell him about the bodies I have found in flats from OD's and how they were found, how many days they were left there because their drug taking peer group didn't really care about them.

Yeah I ain't going in soft on this. Child is going to be petrified of drugs and I don't care.

Then he will do his own research on a website like frank which actually gives the facts and realise you are scaremongering and that the chances of any of that happening from recreational drugs are practically zero. Heroin of course that's a different matter altogether

I teach secondary and it seems very common place. Kids in year 11 accessing class a drugs isn’t unusual at all. Really sad.

It doesn’t matter if MDMA or anything else is perfectly safe. The issue is The bloke selling to you has hardly checked the quality of the supply chain.
Clinical trials and drug manufacture are highly regulated industries. Until the trials have been done I wouldn’t be self treating with stuff that hasn’t undergone testing.
Anyway there are plenty of publications indicating that weed can trigger psychosis so that would be my worry. It is also associated with lack of aspiration and generalised laziness (in my view!).

@AuntyBumBum

Ecstasy is actual being trialed by the nhs to be used as a highly effective anti depressant and anti anxiety medication. The risk from alcahol is way more than anything like that from a small dose of mdma

It's interesting, yes I did know this. David Nutt is at the forefront of this research too. Also the therapeutic use of psychedelics. It's called microdosing.

Use of psilocybin therapeutically is generally effective with a full ‘trip’ dose, see Robin Carhart-Harris’ work. Microdosing is thought to be more of a placebo:

journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/02698811211050556?fbclid=IwAR2IAdmhfcHAESo_cl4EppEjMndTN9-F6tGF1XkrUpTvyLr-UDjq8CZn-VI&

I think it’s more commonplace than we realise. I know a lot of parents who are completely unaware their kids do drugs, and they most definitely do. In fact, every young person I came across in London did class A drugs. It’s hardly surprising when the police do absolutely nothing to help! They’re not helping by turning a blind eye.

The drugs you’ve mentioned are dangerous, and hopefully something like this incident should show the kids just how dangerous the drugs can be.

Maybe ask the police to do more with the school to educate the kids? It seems to me, that the police and school are ignoring their part in this.

When I was young recreational drug use (and heavy drinking) seemed much more popular among the girls from the private school, compared to those at 6th form college.
I think it's partly about money but some of these schools do have a worrying drug culture.

There was a clip on woman’s hour by a lady whose son died of an MDMA overdose. She said she regretted not even considering he could be doing drugs because they were a middle class family and her son was a high achiever etc.

I’ll leave the link here for anyone who wants it. I would really encourage those of you saying ‘Oh no my child definitely doesn’t do drugs and I know they don’t because they told me’ to listen to it. It’s very informative for all parents.

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000wrk0

*interview not clip.

When I was young DF, who was a GP, sat me down and talked me through all the drugs I might encounter. His view was that education was the best way to protect me.

I did the same with my sons. They're young adults now, but in their teens legal highs were very popular. People underestimate how dangerous they are - there just isn't the data that there is on drugs that have a track record.

My kids haven't had a problem with drug. Tbh my main concern has always been alcohol. Both me and my DF are alcoholics (sober) so my sons have bad genes.

@downtonabbeyfan1234 The 21 age restriction does make it more difficult for teenagers to get hold of alcohol in the US, although I imagine it gets easier once they go to university. My DD and her friends (16-17) barely drink, because they simply can't get hold of it! Also, the police take a very dim view of teenagers drinking and parents can get into trouble if someone else's child drinks in their house - I can give my own DD a cider, but I can't allow her friend to have one, I could be arrested.

My friends in the UK know that their teens drink at parties so they must be able to get hold of booze. I could certainly get into pubs at 16/17, although the ID laws have tightened up now.

Ironically, DD has had a puff on a joint and knows who to ask if she wanted to get weed. She doesn't hang out with the smokers, but she knows who they are. I'm not sure how available other drugs are. Luckily, she's not into drugs and neither is her friend group.

And how do you think some people end up on heroine. Heroine isn't their fist drug or introduction to drugs.

I can say that out of every 100 service users I help with addiction to heroine 3-4 will have started their journey with recreational party drug usage and ended up on IV drug usage.

So carry on telling your teens there's a tiny chance or 1 in a million chance of them ending up as IV drug users its much greater than this try 1 in 100 , but be ready to accept that your teen could be the 1.

So yeah let them crack on with their "less dangerous than alcohol MDMA trope" but don't be surprised if it snowballs.

It wasn’t common at all in my circle of friends, but when I worked in a bar at uni, 80% of the staff did drugs.

It started as a bit of weed after a shit shift (I’ve no issues with weed, just never really appealed to me) to coke, ket etc. I saw so many ones start there who were in uni/college courses and less than 6 months in so many of them had dropped out to live up the insert club name lifestyle.

It was really quite sad to watch, at times. Me and my close friends drank but didn’t do drugs, and we’d be watching on at them at the house parties after work. Half passed out in the corner, chewing their faces. Wondering around clubs with their jaws going and coke residue down their tops. Was really grim and sobering.

Actually, a girl I never worked with who worked there after I left ended up overdosing and was hospitalised. Didn’t seem to put them off, though.

So, I do think it is common, sadly, but it really depends on your friend group.

@FailureToLurk

And how do you think some people end up on heroine. Heroine isn't their fist drug or introduction to drugs.

I can say that out of every 100 service users I help with addiction to heroine 3-4 will have started their journey with recreational party drug usage and ended up on IV drug usage.

So carry on telling your teens there's a tiny chance or 1 in a million chance of them ending up as IV drug users its much greater than this try 1 in 100 , but be ready to accept that your teen could be the 1.

So yeah let them crack on with their "less dangerous than alcohol MDMA trope" but don't be surprised if it snowballs.

Hello @FailureToLurk

I'm guessing some of your service users also started out using alcohol.

I hope mine didn’t. I’m pretty sure one didn’t. The other? I don’t know.

archives.drugabuse.gov/blog/post/pure-mdma-safer-other-drugs

dont think pure mdma is safe. best thing to do is just to not take it.

Is it because alcohol is far less available now? In the mid 1990s, there were certain pubs everyone knew would serve underage teenagers and so everyone ended up in those. In the summer we'd go to a friendly off licence and drink in the park.

I imagine things have changed with pubs/ supermarkets being much stricter.

I don't remember much drug taking as a teen at all although it did go on. It was definitely a drinking culture.

My parents didn't have a clue as far as I know. They certainly never said. I was always at "the cinema" or "friend's house". I think parents can be very naive.