to not know how to deal with DS? (Autism and Violence)

[1001Problems]

DS1 is 12. Over the last few years we have been wondering if he possibly has autistic traits but since puberty hit and then with the move to secondary school it is like living with Jekyll and Hyde.

We believe he has Pathological Demand Avoidance Autism - complete meltdowns triggered by requests/need to perform normal tasks. With DS this is homework and any household chores but is starting to escalate to things like getting dressed or putting shoes on. He is highly intelligent (in the 'gifted' category) hence it taking us so long to realise autism was the most likely cause, before the sudden violence in the last 12-18 months we just thought it was quirks of his gifted-ness.

The issue is his meltdowns are violent and directed at his siblings, mostly DD (10). He will then pummel DH or I if we get between him and his 'target'. It is now a regular situation for us to be barricading the younger children in a room while he beats us to try and get through.

I can find no help or information on what to do with a tween who physically attacks and keeps following you to keep attacking. Everything says 'back off, leave them to calm down' but he wont leave us! He keeps attacking until we get in the car and drive off leaving him home alone.

Has anyone got experience of this? Can anyone give some advice on dealing with this? DH and I are on our knees, our younger DC are scared of DS.

I have another appointment to talk with the GP, last time they sent us off for a 3 month wait for Teens in Crisis, 8 weeks of that to be told he doesnt have a problem, she wont refer him and that 'no-one will be interested in a family dynamic issue')

I’d be ringing the police on 101 for advice.
It may seem extreme, but it’s what a friend of mine had to do when no one would help her. Unfortunately she has called the police on many occasions, and they have some sort of system where her number flags up and they attend even if she only rings once and rings off.

It also might be worth going through safeguarding at your DD’s school to get help from that angle.

Is he on the waiting list for assessment to determine whether he has autism or something else?

That sounds very difficult.
Does his school have any concerns?
I have a 14-year-old with ASD and learning difficulties, he goes to a special school. Some of his peers have very challenging behavior and their parents get very little support even with school and social services on board.
Support is hard to get even with a diagnosis, can you approach social services as your younger child needs to be safe?

Straight off I would put a lock on younger DC's door. Make sure they can use it and talk through scenarios such as fire.

What does he say when you talk it through when he is calmer? What reasons does he give? Have you tried (sorry, teaching grandma go suck eggs I'm sure) giving him alternatives like a punchbag in his room and physically practising going and using that before he gets too overwhelmed?

school are aware of what is happening at home but see no issues other than his homework is of a lower standard than they expect. He can show signs of anxiety if things get loud or people are messing around. No violence at school.

Not on waiting list, GP appointment next week. As in my OP, last time they shunted us onto the TiC waiting list telling me they would refer if they felt there was an issue. TiC deemed there was no issue - well funny that as none of his triggers are in the councilling room!! So back to square one.

Interesting suggestion re: going via younger DD's school. will call and make an appointment - with the head or the senco? or class teacher?

Ring school and ask to speak the Safeguarding lead.
I’d contact your school nurse too.

It might be a phase. Is he year 7 or 8? With my son it tied in with puberty now he's a couple of years older his violent outbursts have gone.

School will give you the contact for the nurse

jamnation we have a punch bag. he goes from 0-60 so fast there is genuinely no time to get him to use it before he's so enraged he cant break out of it. When calm he just says 'they were annoying me' 'if they didn't annoy me I wouldnt do it'. He also doesnt accurately remember what happens - he says DH and I attack/hurt him when really he hurts himself by slamming into us, trying to push past us.

Our doors are not strong enough to be held on a lock. we have one door that opens 'the right way' that i can put the others behind and lean against the door or his side and he cant get past me to pull the door open. but i get severely punched.

The Challenging Behaviour Foundation. You are not alone with this.

Amongst what they do, they have a support group and you will be able to get some support/advice on how to manage and how to navigate services.

redhelen yes, he's Y7. lockdown didn't help but puberty started at 10 and it has got worse from there, it levelled up again when he started secondary in sept.

Between outbursts he is loving and cuddly and very child-like in his want to share information and talk about his interests. he's also hilarious and such good fun to be around. one on one he is the model child. add a sibling, especially DD, and its like a volcano exploding.

I have a DD like his. I will say I've had no luck with the police. They are only willing to come out and arrest her, which would be horrific as I've been asking for help for 8yrs and she is constantly let down.

betty I've not heard or the challenging behaviour foundation. Will check them out.

Buy a copy of the explosive child by Ross Greene. Read it cover to cover. Learn how plan B works. Use it.

Also spend a lot of time on his website "Lives in the Balance".

Make sure he is on a waiting list for autism assessment.

In many cases autistic demand avoidance is a feature of not coping in his context. Is he is a very academic school? Is he holding it together all day there and then exploding at home? Have you been to school to talk with them about whether they can adjust the expectations on him there so you suffer less at home? I don't understand how he's pummeling his sister in response to being asked by you guys to do something? Can you explain further. Whilst his behaviour is unacceptable, the best way to adjust it is to try to find out what he thinks is causing it. It will be lagging skills and/or unmet expectations on him.

Ds is diagnosed ASD/PDA

Have a look on the PDA society website, there are loads of resources there.

Buy the book The Explosive Child, both you and your dh should read it.

Cut back chores, ask if homework can be done in school, or at least if he can do the bare minimum whilst you try to work out how to help him.

With ds for a long time we only had 2 absolute rules - he took his inhaler and he wore a seatbelt in the car. Other stuff was added in very gradually, but when he’s under pressure we have to be adaptable and adjust to his needs. The more he has to do the less he is able to do.

You and dh need to divide and conquer. If you know that he lashes out at siblings, you need to make sure things are being supervised all the time.

It’s difficult, but changing the way you parent him is far better all round than trying to use traditional methods that don’t work for him.

Unfortunately my experiences are not positive. Keep on at school and GP about referrals. My daughter has now (3 years down the line) been referred for ASD assessment (a two year wait) but school have now included her in some targeted sessions around managing emotions in school, dealing with teenage politics as they realised there were a few students that all could benefit (group of 10, all bar one awaiting ND type assessment). But CAMHS are very stretched and unfortunately despite pushing, besides her school related behaviour declining the thing that finally got us listened to was her taking an overdose. Obviously I would give anything to avoid anyone else going through that experience. Make yourself an annoyance to everyone. I'm not sure if it's all just resourcing. I think MH issues the professionals become inured to the "low level" issues and are stuck in a "I've heard worse" mindset.

Drop the homework. Not worth it. Contact school immediately though and get it written in his plan by sendco/year head/head of house otherwise you'll get some jobsworth of a teacher having a mega stress about it and more meltdowns. ( Most teachers are fine when you contact them. Some have a mad moment, some are bloody intransigent and push kids to self harm)

Do calming activities every day. Google
Keep him well fed:feed immediately after school. (We did glucose, sucrose and complex carbs)
Give him somewhere quiet at home to calm down after school. (prevention)
Get a lock on the kids doors.

Find out what has changed to make this difficult behaviour start. Often school can trigger it inadvertently. Ring school asap to discuss.

Don't talk to him in a meltdown. He is only emotion and physical. You can restrain kids that are a danger to others and themself. Get training. It's easy to do it wrong. (bear hug from behind) if there are two of you it's easier to do hands and feet.

I sometimes text mine or phone them when they are getting agitated to calm them.

Look for triggers and intervene early.

Contact GP and Mind for help.

Going from 0-60 instantly - take a step back (whilst making sure your other children are safe) and watch what’s going on - what’s happened in the lead up? The school day, there can even be a build up over a few days that can be missed, look for little signs that are going on (eg ds used to go red under his eyes even before he showed that he was angry, so we could intervene earlier). There will be signs, it’s a matter of looking for them and building up the clues - it’s hard at first, but gets easier, and you can start to predict when he’ll blow up, which makes it easier to manage.

@megletthesecond

I have a DD like his. I will say I've had no luck with the police. They are only willing to come out and arrest her, which would be horrific as I've been asking for help for 8yrs and she is constantly let down.

betty I've not heard or the challenging behaviour foundation. Will check them out.

That’s a shame. With my friend they attend and take him away to cool down. When the parents are ready they will pick him up or the police drop him back. He has never been arrested.

Talk to DD. She has got to stop whatever it is that triggers him. If she does it deliberately she gets punished too. Be aware she may be neurodiverse too and may be stimming.

Keep them as separate as possible. Had to do that with mine.

I have a pda 11yo ds.

The biggest thing that we found to influence behaviour is anxiety. Connecting with him changed that and once there is a strong connection with one person, other relationships benefit.

He has a limited amount of resilience which gets used up (if you like). We home Ed both children as school would simply be too difficult. As it is, he is relaxed, open to learning and helpful. He's kind, affectionate, loving and had learnt friendship with his sister.

Have a look at the pda society website who have useful advice.

Feel free to pm if you would like to chat further. I suggest AIBU might not be the most helpful board in terms of considering how to support your child although I understand your frustration.

I have two children diagnosed with ASD and pda and a third on her way so completely get what you need.
Have a look at Yvonne Newbold. She has groups on FB that are all about this group of children. My son who has severe pda has gone from being safety held every day to going months without. There is no magic wand but it is the learning to understand why it is happening that helps. In the moment there is little you can do except keep them safe. The work needs to be done before. I would say he is probably masking a lot in the school day and you are getting the fall out and he loses control.

With my friend they attend and take him away to cool down. When the parents are ready they will pick him up or the police drop him back. He has never been arrested

Where do they take him away to? This is a major deprivation of liberty issue and not advisable, nor is criminalising neurodiverse behaviour.

You've received some excellent advice OP, particularly about identifying and minimising the things that trigger your son. I hope you get some formal support soon.

@CorrBlimeyGG

With my friend they attend and take him away to cool down. When the parents are ready they will pick him up or the police drop him back. He has never been arrested

Where do they take him away to? This is a major deprivation of liberty issue and not advisable, nor is criminalising neurodiverse behaviour.

You've received some excellent advice OP, particularly about identifying and minimising the things that trigger your son. I hope you get some formal support soon.

To the police station, it’s to prevent him hurting himself or anyone else. Unfortunately it’s the only thing that works as there’s nothing else available.

I know this might be controversial and I’m only thinking of use in the short term. Could you put a camera / cameras in your house? I’m just thinking that if DS says you attack him and he gets bruised, injured in any way, you’d have back up. It might also show what triggers his attacks — you can’t be everywhere 24/7, and if he can only say his siblings annoyed him it might give more clues. I’m not sure if your son seeing his behaviour on film will help or make matters worse though. But it might protect you and yoyr husband from any accusations of assault.