to not know how to deal with DS? (Autism and Violence)

[1001Problems]

DS1 is 12. Over the last few years we have been wondering if he possibly has autistic traits but since puberty hit and then with the move to secondary school it is like living with Jekyll and Hyde.

We believe he has Pathological Demand Avoidance Autism - complete meltdowns triggered by requests/need to perform normal tasks. With DS this is homework and any household chores but is starting to escalate to things like getting dressed or putting shoes on. He is highly intelligent (in the 'gifted' category) hence it taking us so long to realise autism was the most likely cause, before the sudden violence in the last 12-18 months we just thought it was quirks of his gifted-ness.

The issue is his meltdowns are violent and directed at his siblings, mostly DD (10). He will then pummel DH or I if we get between him and his 'target'. It is now a regular situation for us to be barricading the younger children in a room while he beats us to try and get through.

I can find no help or information on what to do with a tween who physically attacks and keeps following you to keep attacking. Everything says 'back off, leave them to calm down' but he wont leave us! He keeps attacking until we get in the car and drive off leaving him home alone.

Has anyone got experience of this? Can anyone give some advice on dealing with this? DH and I are on our knees, our younger DC are scared of DS.

I have another appointment to talk with the GP, last time they sent us off for a 3 month wait for Teens in Crisis, 8 weeks of that to be told he doesnt have a problem, she wont refer him and that 'no-one will be interested in a family dynamic issue')

So perhaps your DD may need to learn when to do or not do certain things to help prevent a meltdown in your DS
I don't think that's fair at all, the ds does seem to be targeting the dd, she's already being locked away in a room and having to stay there till she's not at any more risk, and will there be limits to what he says she needs to do/not to do to not be assaulted/locked away? He's not assaulting his peers/grandparents/other siblings from what I've read, and he's only assaulting his parents when he wants to get to her.

I can't imagine how you are coping @1001Problems, and it's so great all that you are doing for all your children, please make sure you access support from a carers centre/parents support group too.

DD is genuinely doing her best but she is a 10 year old child who understandably gets frustrated/forgets/cant cope anymore sometimes.

DD is a very outgoing and bubbly, she loves to sing and dance and chatter. If she had her way she would sing and hum and dance 24/7. DS is introverted, detailed and cannot understand making noise unless you are going to say something life altering. they are fundamentally very different people.

DD is already not singing in the communal areas - only in her room or the playroom. she is already limiting her chatting when he is in the room. She is massively restricting her natural instincts to try and help him not react. Of course some times she slips but in the main she is trying very very hard.

DS on the other hand doesnt see this as to him, why would anyone need/want to sing all the time anyway? So even if she sings one line, or asks what he thinks is a stupid question in his hearing he will react.

The other aspect is when the frustration is from something else and he goes looking for her to get his release of stress by lashing out at her. He doesnt really realise that is what he is doing, but he does.

Oh my, your poor daughter.

From your posts, it appears your 10 year old daughter is trying to modify her behaviour to appease her brother, but he is still using her as an target. A target to vent his frustration and anger.

This is unacceptable behaviour and you and your husband have a responsibility not just to manage your son anger but to also protect your daughter. I agree with the suggestions of phoning 101 when he flies into a rage. He is not getting any younger and sadly to get support, a family has to seem to hit crises point.

This needs to stop now, it wont be long before he be towering over you and still using his younger sister as a punch bag.

Can your daughter stay with relatives? then she has a safe place to call home and is not being verbally and physcially abused.

We have a very similar situation to you, my 10 year old is Autistic and has violent meltdowns like you describe except luckily they are aimed at me and DH and not his sister. Sister is 7 and like your daughter constantly sings, chats, dances and makes noise which to him is a nightmare. He has recently got an EHCP after lots of school refusal which has definitely improved the situation, but we have secondary transition coming up in September which I’m absolutely dreading. He’s also gifted, but hates homework and it always causes drama. When he gets violent my husband holds him from behind in a bear hug but he’s a big, strong lad and it’s hard for me to deal with. Some brilliant advice on this thread, I’m going to have a proper read through!

Clearly your DD should not have to modify her behaviour then. It was something we did in our house but there were specific things that were happening involving one brother.

Your DS sounds very similar to mine. My DS also uses his (other) brother as a source to vent his frustrations, no idea why but it's so upsetting and I understand the difficulties and the emotional upset it causes for all involved. It does totally feel like living with a violent controlling partner but one who you are actually responsible for. I'm following out of interest as we have had no support from CAMHS and any suggestions are welcome. The fact there aren't many is testament to how difficult this is.

Can you put the violent child outside? Some fresh air and temperature change might help him out of the rage.

I have two DS with autism and know several families who experience child to parent and/or child to sibling violence. No idea if their experiences will be helpful to you or not but -

My friend ended up phoning the social work crisis team over the summer holidays due to escalating violent behaviour. She was pleased with the response as she had a visit the next day, started her son on an anti-anxiety medication which has made a big difference. Not saying that everyone has such a positive experience but that was hers.

Another family I know also have had SS involvement and both the younger siblings are 'children at risk' which has lead to greater support for the family as a whole including respite for the older brother.

I think my DDs are autistic with PDA. My eldest went through a stage of lashing out. There is a good Facebook support group here www.facebook.com/groups/SENDVCBProjFamilies/?ref=share

Also second the challenging behaviour foundation

I haven't read the full thread (sorry!) but if you are finding that school and other professionals don't see these behavioural traits, have you considered filming them and sharing the videos? Doesn't have to be "in his face" videoing with a mobile, a simple wifi cctv camera in the corner of the main living area would suffice ...

The other aspect is when the frustration is from something else and he goes looking for her to get his release of stress by lashing out at her. He doesnt really realise that is what he is doing, but he does
Reading this makes me feel utterly sick, your poor, poor DD. I can’t imagine how scared and crushed she must feel being used as a punchbag by your son.

My DS has ASD and demand avoidance. He is 14 and the violent outbursts are very challenging. I am heartened to hear from others on the thread with similar issues and will look for the Facebook groups.
I completely agree with the feeling of being trapped in an abusive relationship but can't leave as it's my DS not DH. I really fear for any future relationships he might have.
I don't feel bothered us any help available and we are muddling through as best we can.

Hi opI am sorry you are dealing with this.
It is a very difficult thing to deal with.
Here are some avenues of support
PEGS
NEWBOLD HOPE
both of the above are on line and can be easily accessed.

You can look into NVR NON VIOLENT RESISTANCE courses
You could self refer to Early help
Your local domestic abuse service may offer help or support
Any local parent Carers groups may help

Access Holes in the wall on line it's a sight by a lady called Helen Bonnick that deals with this issue

Look up APV (adolescent to parent violence)
Child to parent violence
Break for change( a program that is ran in some areas for this issue)
Look on your council page for charitable organizations that may offer help and support with this issue

I work specifically in this area op and would be happy to offer support and advice

You mentioned you all leave the house and leave him at home. I think
I'd try putting him outside instead and calling the police that might make him realise there are serious consequences for assaulting his family. You have to get tough on this for the sake of your dad

@collieresponder88

You mentioned you all leave the house and leave him at home. I think I'd try putting him outside instead and calling the police that might make him realise there are serious consequences for assaulting his family. You have to get tough on this for the sake of your dad

Daughter !

You need to fundamentally change the way you parent and your family dynamic. You need to educate yourself and start trying to understand your child and advocate for him. No one is going to step in and help you or ‘fix’ your child’s behaviour. If your DS does have PDA, he is not in control of himself and you need to help him to achieve that and calm his behaviour. Traditional parenting techniques do not work. My DS is 10 and autistic with a PDA profile. He is not violent because we never let it get to a stage where he needs to lash out. He is also on anti anxiety medication. Your child is not trying to punish you, he is punishing himself. Behaviours is communication and he is telling you how desperate and unhappy he is in the only way he knows how to. Learning how to parent a child like this is not easy and the majority of people do not understand why your child needs a totally relaxed, rule free, safe space at home, but if you can achieve that, all your lives will improve.

@collieresponder88

You mentioned you all leave the house and leave him at home. I think I'd try putting him outside instead and calling the police that might make him realise there are serious consequences for assaulting his family. You have to get tough on this for the sake of your dad

Please don't do this, he's not a dog.

@shade78

Can you put the violent child outside? Some fresh air and temperature change might help him out of the rage.

Again, please do not do this. And think of the language you're using here @shade78 'put' him outside? This is a disabled child.

NVR is ok, but it relies on supporters to back you up. So if you have no one it's not properly effective.

I haven't read the full thread but OP I've been there.

Pretty much identical situation including the younger DD.

My son was diagnosed with autism eventually and anxiety and depression. I know you are already doing this but you need to work out the triggers and try to remove the demands for now as he clearly isn't coping. It may be things that are happening in school that he's containing all day then he fizzes up when at home (bottle of coke analogy).

I have seen some people on here have suggested the Explosive Child which is excellent. Speak to school about it too especially if the behaviour was different when he wasn't in school or during school holidays. Try to get him to express what's going on.

I never found punishments worked, it just ramped up the tension. It goes against the grain but mostly 12 year olds lash out because something is going very wrong and they haven't the skills to properly express it.

On a positive note my violent 12 year old is now a calm and polite 16 year old. Taking demands away and giving him a voice took the anger away. He does also take medication for anxiety and has just started weekly clinical psychology sessions as we hope that he will eventually be able to come off the meds.

Your daughter will also be impacted so speak to her school and see if they can offer her any emotional support. She might be very scared of her brother and you might find , I have with my daughter, that the scars run deep. She does very much resent him for the harm he caused when he was younger.

We've found Young Carers really good for DD. It's great for her self esteem to focus on herself for once, and to be with people who get it. Especially important as they get older I think, and they are trying to figure out who they are.

Can you self refer to an OT or try and get one privately?

This is awful for your daughter. She’s not even safe from physical violence when in her own room, in her own house.

This will harm her irreparably.

Rather than have her barricade herself in, could she go and stay with her grandparents for a bit? Emphasise it’s not as a punishment but you want her to have a complete break away from being physically attacked.

The way he goes looking for her when he’s frustrated, so he can use her as his outlet, is horrific. He will be bigger and stronger than she is, she must be terrified of him

@1001Problems

he has his own room, opposite side of the house to DD. He now has his playstation/dvd player up there and all his belongings. he refuses to go up there when he is getting frustrated (i accept we are clearly too late spotting the signs at the moment)

DD has her own room, she uses it as much as she can but it is small. Obviously sometimes she gets fed up/has a bad day and pushes his buttons - all siblings do. but we routinely witness him walk into the room where DD is minding her own business and he will throw an elbow into her, or kick at her. She then will cry/shout out and he will turn and pummel her for 'trying to get him into trouble when he hasn't done anything'.

This is not pda or asd but being an arsehole It helped us to explain this to ds. It is not always clear to the child with asd which things are ‘chosen’ behaviours and which driven by the asd.