Why do you benefit bash?

[greyblanket76]

My family and I are working class and always have been. My friends are too and so are the people that I tend to socialise with/meet in everyday life. I've only been on MN since last year but have seen so many comments bashing people who are on/depend on benefits and I'd really like to know why?

Is this because some people on here think everyone that's on benefits is lazy and doesn't want to work therefore claim benefits? Or is it something else?

I'll talk about my situation and will keep it as brief as possible as I already know people will come in the comments to try and shame me. I'm early 20s and a single mum (didn't start out that way but your whole life can literally change overnight and that's what happened to me). I have one DC and I'm expecting another so I've been on maternity leave back to back as I'll have 2 under 2.

I've worked full time since I was 17 right up until I went on my first maternity leave. Due to the rate of SMP, I'm entitled to benefits as SMP doesn't even cover my rent which is £1200. I'm entitled to £1670 of UC which covers my rent and all my bills. During the first 9 months of my maternity leave I was receiving around £1507 UC (due to deductions) + £638 SMP = £2145 a month.
Once I give birth to my second DC, my UC entitlement should go from £1670 to £1907. This isn't 100% accurate but due to receiving SMP, let's say the deductions would be due £1700 UC + £638 SMP = £2388 a month. That would be excluding child benefit for both children btw.

When I was working full time, I was earning £1383 a month. I do plan to go back to work after my maternity leave ends as I genuinely love my work and have my whole career in front of me. However can people see the huge jump in difference between the two amounts? Nearly a grand in total! When returning back to work, I would be entitled to some benefits however because I'd be working full time, it wouldn't be a lot. That's why it's advised that you drop hours to work part time in order to get the most help available.

I've read my post back and hope it isn't too confusing but I just wanted some people who benefit bash to understand that sometimes life on benefits seems better especially as you have kids because you get so much more help. My mum keeps telling me to consider not working for a year or two just because I need to consider the quality of life my DC and I will have. I wouldn't be able to pay for rent AND childcare so what would I do? There's a lot that comes into play when deciding if you should go back to work or just be on benefits and I hope some people got that from this post. Seeing as this is an anonymous forum, if you judge/bash people on benefits, I'd really be interested to hear why. Posting in AIBU because I'm prepared to be flamed and have learnt not to take nasty comments to heart

@muchtooyoungtoofeelthisdamold The benefit cap includes child benefit too

Regardless of whether or not you’re a single parent op the father should be paying child maintenance. Since you only have £73 a month for you and your dd after bills (does that include groceries?) even the £7 a week if he’s on benefits would help.

@Sarahbeeney

My SMP didn’t cover my mortgage but I wasn’t entitled to any benefits!

I borrowed 10 grand so I could afford to be on maternity leave which I’m paying back over the next 20 years. You sound lucky!

@Sarahbeeney you have a mortgage yet I'm stuck in a one bedroom flat costing £1200 a month because I'm private renting. What's lucky about that?

A lot of it is people dont actually know what theyre talking about. they read The Sun or watch Channel 5 or some such and get their "Facts" from there.

For example:
"More cash for having more kids"
Nope - Capped at 2

"Get a free council house"
Nope - Council Housing is rare, its now social housing and its incredibly tough to get a home.

"Get a bigger house when you have more kids"
Nope - there's million crammed into places too small for them because there isn't any housing available.

"They get all my tax money"
Nope - The averag person earning an average wage that pays tax pays about 50p a month to Universal Credit claimaints.

"Theres loads of em that aint never worked in their life"
Nope - Long term unemployment figures make up a tiny percentage of the unemployment bill.

so on and so on.

Ive argued with them, ive pointed all this information out to them and ive supplied link to the evidence, to the sources, to the studies that prove them wrong at every step. people just hand wave it away and stay willingly ignorant.

@OfstedOffred

Are you kidding?

Because I've made sacrifices over and over again. Had an abortion rather than have an unplanned child I couldnt afford. Worked incredibly long hours for years to get myself into a position financially where I could comfortably afford a family.

Sometimes it can be galling when it seems the system provides for people who make bad decisions over and over and over again. As if there are no consequences for stupidity. But even more galling is when the governments clumsy attempts to save money result in savage cuts to the NHS and schools, leaving those who least deserve it suffering or disadvantaged.

So because you felt an abortion was right for you . Anyone who did not make real choice deserves a bashing ?

Nothing against disabled or ill people claiming benefits or people on low wages, but able-bodied people who choose not to work? Nah - absolute piss takers. Go to work and pay for childcare like everyone else or at least study with the aim of going to work. And if you're going on about about the price of childcare? Well, no one forced you to have kids. I have no time for this at all. Take responsibility for your life and stop constantly relying on others to bail you out.

@StickyToffeePuddingAndIceCream

Your benefits are a bit less than my take home pay (after my student loan and pension are deducted) working full time on 45k. I had to study for years to qualify. When I was on mat leave I'd just changed jobs (granted my choice) so I only got maternity allowance. Can you not see why people might be a bit irked by your post telling everyone what you get in handouts for reproducing really young? I had to return to work after 8 months maternity leave and I'm juggling still breastfeeding, it's hard work.

I'm not sure what you are expecting people to say in response to your post? Well done? Good for you?

@StickyToffeePuddingAndIceCream many people have actually answered the question and have given me food for thought which is exactly what I was looking for. As for you using the word 'handouts,' you've just helped answer the question

@MaryAndHerNet

A lot of it is people dont actually know what theyre talking about. they read The Sun or watch Channel 5 or some such and get their "Facts" from there.

For example:
"More cash for having more kids"
Nope - Capped at 2

"Get a free council house"
Nope - Council Housing is rare, its now social housing and its incredibly tough to get a home.

"Get a bigger house when you have more kids"
Nope - there's million crammed into places too small for them because there isn't any housing available.

"They get all my tax money"
Nope - The averag person earning an average wage that pays tax pays about 50p a month to Universal Credit claimaints.

"Theres loads of em that aint never worked in their life"
Nope - Long term unemployment figures make up a tiny percentage of the unemployment bill.

so on and so on.

Ive argued with them, ive pointed all this information out to them and ive supplied link to the evidence, to the sources, to the studies that prove them wrong at every step. people just hand wave it away and stay willingly ignorant.

@MaryAndHerNet wish this could be put on billboards

Also to people who live solely on benefits. Where do you think the money comes from?

Everyone else. We all have to work that bit harder, be taxed that bit more, have that extra bit cut from the nhs, to fund people living for free and not earning anything themselves.

There's no such thing as "government" money, it doesnt get magicked out of thin air. It comes either from taxing other people or from taxing companies, which pushes up the costs of everything we buy.

Also since you said your figures don’t include child benefit you should claim that too.

www.gov.uk/child-benefit/what-youll-get

It’s £21.15 per week for your first child and will be £14 a week for the second.

It’s ridiculous tarring all people who use benefits with the same brush.

I’m claiming UC. I’m a single parent. I work every hour god sends working school time and times my DC are with their father. I pay all the bills. And food. And do all the house work. I work the administration side of my job when DC are in bed or busy.

I pay all the debts from our marriage which failed so that the children have a roof over their head.

I’m exhausted. My whole body aches all the time. My job is very physical.

I’ve had a few months where I’ve earned enough not to be able to claim UC which is a huge achievement for a self employed single parent.

Yet I could be accused of being lazy or scrounging off the government etc.

Pfft. People need to mind their own business and stop judging and concentrate on the many problems of their own.

[quote Waddlegoose]@Hospedia just wanted to ask as I’m interested. How does the Op get the amount in benefits if the cap is £20k and £24k.

Is the cap a net amount? And how does the OP seem be higher than this?[/quote]
@Waddlegoose I've already said this is all an approximate amount. I haven't done any deductions and I'm currently on £1670 a month. This is all amounts of something similar to what I'd get whilst on maternity leave when I have my second baby. SMP is not included in UC

Now, now @MaryAndHerNet

Any number that varies between 0.8% and 4.3% of the UK population needs to be shouted at/about.

None of your logic about the avergae of 1.9% will stop that!

2 under 2 doesn't just "happen"

Tbh you are the embodiment of why people do benefit bash.

@MaryAndHerNet

A lot of it is people dont actually know what theyre talking about. they read The Sun or watch Channel 5 or some such and get their "Facts" from there.

For example:
"More cash for having more kids"
Nope - Capped at 2

"Get a free council house"
Nope - Council Housing is rare, its now social housing and its incredibly tough to get a home.

"Get a bigger house when you have more kids"
Nope - there's million crammed into places too small for them because there isn't any housing available.

"They get all my tax money"
Nope - The averag person earning an average wage that pays tax pays about 50p a month to Universal Credit claimaints.

"Theres loads of em that aint never worked in their life"
Nope - Long term unemployment figures make up a tiny percentage of the unemployment bill.

so on and so on.

Ive argued with them, ive pointed all this information out to them and ive supplied link to the evidence, to the sources, to the studies that prove them wrong at every step. people just hand wave it away and stay willingly ignorant.

Ah but then if they don't get a free council house that means they have to private rent at 1200+ then the claimer gets bashed for that to.

@CMZ2018

Because the rest of us are paying for them

Again, @CMZ2018 have you actually seen the percentage on Gov.uk of taxpayers money that is spent on welfare? Do you look down on people on benefits because you believe you're 'paying for them?'

@AChocolateOrangeaday

2 under 2 doesn't just "happen"

Tbh you are the embodiment of why people do benefit bash.

How do you know she wasn't in a stable relationship until after getting pregnant with the second?

@urghhhhh33

This is obviously just my opinion but I think there are two groups of people who bash people on benefits: one group who are high or fairly well off earners and they see it as their tax money being spent. Which is ridiculous because the amount of tax that actually goes towards benefits is minimal. I also think they are very far detached from what it is actually like to be in a situation like yours so they think it is easy to just go and get a full time job. Then there are people like my DH (who, just to clarify, never bash's people on benefits he just gets annoyed with the system). And I can kind of understand why. He works all hours under the sun so that I can be off work to look after our 2 DC who are both under 5. I can't work full time because what I earn whilst working wouldn't cover the extortionate nursery fees where we live. But it means that we really struggle to pay the bills every month as we only have one wage coming in. We aren't entitled to any help because my DH earns just slightly above the threshold. So in terms of actual figures it means we have only about £100 more than you a month. I would never bash anybody claiming benefits as it's bloody hard work to afford to live these days, especially with young children. What I'm trying to say is that I don't agree with how the system is worked out, not the people that get help from it

This.

I don't tend to bash people on benefits. But I don't think the system is fair. I have absolutely no problem with people who genuinely need them to survive having benefits. Or if they literally cannot work.

But like this person said it seems very unfair when some people are working extremely long hours to get the same or not much more than people working part time on benefits.

But I know a few people on tax credits with school age dcs who could work more hours but don't want to. They want to work part time so only work the minimum so they can claim. That's when I don't think the system is fair.

A few weeks contributions based job seekers & I received £74 after paying into the system for years
I got a job sharpish !!!

Not everyone receives £££ in benefits, it depends on your individual circumstances

However, I think that some people are lazy

I know people that don't work, or who work PT, or FT & receive benefits for a wide variety of reasons

There are also people who genuinely want to work, but nobody will give them an opportunity

What is the answer, to bring in a "universal living allowance" for everyone & you can choose to work or not to work

@getyourarseofffthequattro if I'd had a baby when I first met my husband (aged 20 still at uni) I had barely any savings, I didn't own my own home and I didn't earn much (I was still at uni and yet to start my professional life). Fast forward to when we chose to have our first child aged 32, we'd bought our own home after 5 years of hard saving and had just got married. We were in a position to start a family. Had we lost our jobs we wouldn't have got any handouts as we had savings and we own our own home. If my husband left me I'd get half the house we bought together and could buy something smaller on my own wage and the equity (we are happily married). So in short having kids aged 20 when you arent in a good finacial position is relevant here. I could have chosen to do the same but I didn't, I knew we were in no position to have children until we were financially stable.

Then by the time the 5th/6th child is born

That number of children is unusual, in 2021 there were only 768,000 families with three or more children and not all of those will be claiming benefits ('only' as compared to 1-2 child families which are the majority).

Honestly there’s no point in arguing people who are committed to misunderstanding how benefits actually work and what actually costs the average person. If you’re happy to ignore the Tory piss ups and tax dodgers, but you seethe over “handouts” to people living in poverty, you don’t dislike economic waste- you dislike the poor. Just own it.

So because you felt an abortion was right for you . Anyone who did not make real choice deserves a bashing ?

I think that choice of whether to have a baby should be based on the same premise for everybody - that you will have to fund it yourself. As an employed person my employer doesnt decide to up my pay because I find myself pregnant, so the decision to have a child is huge.

For a person in a position where they depend solely on universal credit, for the first & second child, a choice to have a baby results in the government bearing much of the financial consequence and the claimant getting paid more money.

There's no such thing as "government" money, it doesnt get magicked out of thin air. It comes either from taxing other people or from taxing companies, which pushes up the costs of everything we buy.

You do know you wouldn't pay less if benefits didn't exist, don't you?

@stressincontinence

Not sure how to quote but the question about why people are annoyed at individuals rather than the system. I think most people who are annoyed at individuals are also annoyed at the system.But the reason they are annoyed at individuals is because they see some people on benefits who are able to work (or work more than they do) but are choosing not to because they are getting more on benefits than they'd earn. (I think the OP potentially falls into this group but I may have misread). The fact these people are choosing to get more on benefits is seen as an immoral choice on the belief that if people can work, they should. if everyone on lower income decided not to work and claim benefits instead, then arguably the system wouldn't be able to support it - so people choosing to get more on benefits rather than work on low income is perceived as a "fuck you" to people who are working all the hours on low income and getting less in return.

@stressincontinence hmm interesting point. Is it seen as morally wrong if someone who has kids will work the minimum so they can get the most in benefits in order to have a higher amount of money coming in? Should they work more hours to end up getting less money just because it's seen as 'morally right?'