Why do you benefit bash?

[greyblanket76]

My family and I are working class and always have been. My friends are too and so are the people that I tend to socialise with/meet in everyday life. I've only been on MN since last year but have seen so many comments bashing people who are on/depend on benefits and I'd really like to know why?

Is this because some people on here think everyone that's on benefits is lazy and doesn't want to work therefore claim benefits? Or is it something else?

I'll talk about my situation and will keep it as brief as possible as I already know people will come in the comments to try and shame me. I'm early 20s and a single mum (didn't start out that way but your whole life can literally change overnight and that's what happened to me). I have one DC and I'm expecting another so I've been on maternity leave back to back as I'll have 2 under 2.

I've worked full time since I was 17 right up until I went on my first maternity leave. Due to the rate of SMP, I'm entitled to benefits as SMP doesn't even cover my rent which is £1200. I'm entitled to £1670 of UC which covers my rent and all my bills. During the first 9 months of my maternity leave I was receiving around £1507 UC (due to deductions) + £638 SMP = £2145 a month.
Once I give birth to my second DC, my UC entitlement should go from £1670 to £1907. This isn't 100% accurate but due to receiving SMP, let's say the deductions would be due £1700 UC + £638 SMP = £2388 a month. That would be excluding child benefit for both children btw.

When I was working full time, I was earning £1383 a month. I do plan to go back to work after my maternity leave ends as I genuinely love my work and have my whole career in front of me. However can people see the huge jump in difference between the two amounts? Nearly a grand in total! When returning back to work, I would be entitled to some benefits however because I'd be working full time, it wouldn't be a lot. That's why it's advised that you drop hours to work part time in order to get the most help available.

I've read my post back and hope it isn't too confusing but I just wanted some people who benefit bash to understand that sometimes life on benefits seems better especially as you have kids because you get so much more help. My mum keeps telling me to consider not working for a year or two just because I need to consider the quality of life my DC and I will have. I wouldn't be able to pay for rent AND childcare so what would I do? There's a lot that comes into play when deciding if you should go back to work or just be on benefits and I hope some people got that from this post. Seeing as this is an anonymous forum, if you judge/bash people on benefits, I'd really be interested to hear why. Posting in AIBU because I'm prepared to be flamed and have learnt not to take nasty comments to heart

I wouldn’t bash people with good reason to be on benefits at all. I do think there are too many people cheating the system though, like a certain couple I know who for the last 20 years have been managing to claim false disability benefits and carer allowance for the partner. The ‘disabled’ party is by no means disabled at all but is at the doctors hassling them for an appointment every other day. This isn’t me saying to the naked eye it doesn’t appear that he’s disabled, I know categorically that he has absolutely nothing wrong and puts on a big act in front of medical professionals. They have no shame 🤦🏼‍♀️ There are so many people who genuinely need benefits! My partner works every hour under the sun but only qualified for one payment after 6/7 months of lockdown last year because I had a job. We had no physical way of paying the bills and it drove me mad that he’s worked so hard all his life but wasn’t allowed to work yet we weren’t helped at all while this couple up the road from us have got their feet up and the bills paid 🙄 Seems unfair! I’m on maternity leave now but have started up my own business for cash because we just can’t survive on my £650 a month smp. I’m up til 1am every night working and back up at 6 before my baby gets up just to be able to pay the bills, it’s so hard

It's the system that's flawed - YES. But. Reducing UC if you don't find ANY job within what, 4 weeks?

Jobseekers have four weeks to find work before widening their search
From today (Tuesday 8 February), those who are capable of work will be expected to search more widely for suitable available jobs from the fourth week of their Universal Credit claim, rather than up to three months as was previously the case.

If you’re happy to ignore the Tory piss ups and tax dodgers, but you seethe over “handouts” to people living in poverty, you don’t dislike economic waste- you dislike the poor. Just own it.

And that they specifically hate poor children who, despite having no control or say in the decision being made by adults, bear the brunt of the negative consequences linked to a punitive benefits system that punishes poor people for the crime of simply being poor.

[quote StickyToffeePuddingAndIceCream]@getyourarseofffthequattro if I'd had a baby when I first met my husband (aged 20 still at uni) I had barely any savings, I didn't own my own home and I didn't earn much (I was still at uni and yet to start my professional life). Fast forward to when we chose to have our first child aged 32, we'd bought our own home after 5 years of hard saving and had just got married. We were in a position to start a family. Had we lost our jobs we wouldn't have got any handouts as we had savings and we own our own home. If my husband left me I'd get half the house we bought together and could buy something smaller on my own wage and the equity (we are happily married). So in short having kids aged 20 when you arent in a good finacial position is relevant here. I could have chosen to do the same but I didn't, I knew we were in no position to have children until we were financially stable.[/quote]
No it's not, stop generalising. Just because YOU wouldn't have been able to afford it doesn't mean none of us can. Young mums does not equal on benefits. Frankly if have been thankful but got absolutely fuck all and went back to work full time, but it's nice to know as a young mum I'm still being viewed as irresponsible without actually getting any of the benefits, money or bloody otherwise.

I'm not capped as I have two children with disabilities.

DD1 gets £491 per month DLA (HRC, LRM)
DS1 gets £362 DLA (MRC, LRM)
Housing benefit £600
Full council tax £105
Income support £195
CHB £153
CTC £1205
Carers £292.50

Taking the children's DLA out of the pot leaves £2550. So approx 30k and just about the highest physically possible.

I adored my job. My ex walked out on us as he couldn't cope with the children's disabilities. I have a BSc and an Masters.

Both children are on very strict 1:1 ratios in school, DD has 2:1. Holidays we get some respite for DD which costs the LA 13.95 per hour.

Seeing as for all 7525 hours per year that they are not in school I care for two high needs children alone, despite needing 3 members of staff employed specifically for them in school, I probably save the state a fortune in care costs.

LAs in term time fairly reasonably determine school hours as respite for parents and those hours are essential for being able to manage the kids and not costing a fortune if they were to be placed in care.

My fantasy right now is i could access wrap around childcare 5 days a week that can meet their needs and go back to work but I wouldn't be eligible for extra respite (I would wish for 6 hours one of the weekend days to manage this) so I would work 37 hours a week and still have to care for the children every other moment.

The system is brutal. The system removes choice. I lost my choices the moment we realised DD was disabled and DS was already well on the way by then. I often think if I had known 6 months earlier re DD, DS would have been aborted.

I have never claimed anything but circumstances can change , I lost my partner of 28 years and had to claim universal credit even though I work 35 hours , I earn 1300 which barely covers rent and bills and am entitled to 545 universal credit for me and my 14 year old son which is a godsend to us , it can happen to anyone

I don't believe I've ever bashed anyone on benefits here or IRL. I volunteered for a long time with the CAB and saw how tough it could be to even navigate the system.

However, taking your situation for example, I do think it's fair enough to wonder:

• how the system is stacked to make it SO much more favourable for some not to work than for others who work very hard at low paid jobs
• how you have ended up as a single mother to two so young and without the ability to care for them yourself (there may well be a backstory here)
• why we hear of stories of the disabled being really hard done by on benefits based on cursory assessments of their need when you don't seem to have to justify anything to anyone

Friend of mine was actually advised by the job centre that the benefits she could claim were higher than the job she was offered - she took the job and now some time later a different story.

I think those who claim benefits "cynically" isn't right but I think there are so many fewer of those than some would like to claim. Even so - those people are taking the rise I think - & NOT NOT NOT - those who need other benefits for genuine reasons.

@LizzieMacQueen

It's the system that's flawed - YES. But. Reducing UC if you don't find ANY job within what, 4 weeks?

Jobseekers have four weeks to find work before widening their search
From today (Tuesday 8 February), those who are capable of work will be expected to search more widely for suitable available jobs from the fourth week of their Universal Credit claim, rather than up to three months as was previously the case.

That means that they have 4 weeks to find a job in their chosen field. After that, they have to apply for anything and everything. It is not a reduction in benefit.

@OfstedOffred

Are you kidding?

Because I've made sacrifices over and over again. Had an abortion rather than have an unplanned child I couldnt afford. Worked incredibly long hours for years to get myself into a position financially where I could comfortably afford a family.

Sometimes it can be galling when it seems the system provides for people who make bad decisions over and over and over again. As if there are no consequences for stupidity. But even more galling is when the governments clumsy attempts to save money result in savage cuts to the NHS and schools, leaving those who least deserve it suffering or disadvantaged.

@OfstedOffred are you saying that because you chose to have an abortion that others should consider that option if they find themselves in a similar predicament? Not everyone is willing to have an abortion so what do you propose they do then?

@Waxonwaxoff0

The op has 2 under 2 in her early 20’s, of course people can say she was an engineer in her own life and as such made choices that weren’t ideal.

Many wait until I’m committed relationships, married, with savings before having children for this very reason, the OP has made poor life choices that have led them to relying on benefits

Also to add if I was not working I would only be entitled to 1112£ so I am much better off working

I do think there are too many people cheating the system though, like a certain couple I know who for the last 20 years have been managing to claim false disability benefits and carer allowance for the partner. The ‘disabled’ party is by no means disabled at all but is at the doctors hassling them for an appointment every other day. This isn’t me saying to the naked eye it doesn’t appear that he’s disabled, I know categorically that he has absolutely nothing wrong and puts on a big act in front of medical professionals

To get PIP, it takes more than "putting a show" in front of the professionals. You need actual evidence such as diagnostic reports and assessments of your needs. You don't just rock up to the GP and do a bit of pretending.

I haven't read the whole thread. I don't think I do judge people on benefits. Especially parents of young kids.

However, there is a theme in this thread where circumstances change unexpectedly. This seems to be code for "father stops paying". We should be judging those men as a society. It takes two parents to bring up kids, I can't imagine how hard life is as a single parent. The very very least they could do is pay their way.

If people are so envious of life on benefits why not stop working and do the same? Because you know that ultimately your life is significantly better for working, progressing, paying into a pension, saving. You also know that your children's lives are better for seeing their parents working and planning their lives. Benefits is a useful safety net. Those that make it a life choice do not prosper long-term even if there is some short-term envy when you look at the numbers.

at anyone who thinks a 20 year old guy is going to be good, solid father material. Choices.

Op your calculations might seem great now, but as soon as your youngest turns 3 you will be expected to work at least 16 hours per week. And expected working hours goes up when they turn 5.

@urghhhhh33

This is obviously just my opinion but I think there are two groups of people who bash people on benefits: one group who are high or fairly well off earners and they see it as their tax money being spent. Which is ridiculous because the amount of tax that actually goes towards benefits is minimal. I also think they are very far detached from what it is actually like to be in a situation like yours so they think it is easy to just go and get a full time job. Then there are people like my DH (who, just to clarify, never bash's people on benefits he just gets annoyed with the system). And I can kind of understand why. He works all hours under the sun so that I can be off work to look after our 2 DC who are both under 5. I can't work full time because what I earn whilst working wouldn't cover the extortionate nursery fees where we live. But it means that we really struggle to pay the bills every month as we only have one wage coming in. We aren't entitled to any help because my DH earns just slightly above the threshold. So in terms of actual figures it means we have only about £100 more than you a month. I would never bash anybody claiming benefits as it's bloody hard work to afford to live these days, especially with young children. What I'm trying to say is that I don't agree with how the system is worked out, not the people that get help from it

I think this is it op

And Jeremy Kyle

@Muchtooyoungtofeelthisdamold

It’ll be because she was earning and they give you a grace period before the benefit cap is applied. Once it is she will likely be capped at £23000 a year for London which is £1916 per month including what she received for child benefit. Minus the £1200 rent and that leaves £716 per month for all bills, food etc for herself and 2 kids. That will not be a life of luxury at all. And it is mainly landlords benefiting. Everyone seems to think living on benefits is a life of luxury UNTIL something in their life goes wrong, illness, redundancy, husband leaves and it is only then they realise how hard it actually is and how little money you get.

Thank you! Where is the luxury in that?? People need to remember my rent is £1200. My bills are easily another £300. Council tax is £110 a month (and that's with the single person discount), gas and electric is £72. I can honestly keep going and maybe people will realise it's not such a walk in the park as they think it is

@Avarua

at anyone who thinks a 20 year old guy is going to be good, solid father material. Choices.

How smart were you at 20? Give her a break.

@EnigmaCat

Has it occurred to anyone that the people on benefits with luxury cars, clothes etc, might be topping up any benefits via criminal activity, rather than benefits?

Apart from ignorance or jealousy, encouraging benefit bashing is convenient for politicians (hence the scrounging narrative) as it helps people keep fighting each other, rather than questioning the low wage exploitation of some employees.

Yep!

@twominutesmore

If people are so envious of life on benefits why not stop working and do the same? Because you know that ultimately your life is significantly better for working, progressing, paying into a pension, saving. You also know that your children's lives are better for seeing their parents working and planning their lives. Benefits is a useful safety net. Those that make it a life choice do not prosper long-term even if there is some short-term envy when you look at the numbers.

Well yes, that and pride. I'm not gonna lie, I didn't feel proud of myself whilst on benefits, so when I could work, I did. I did get advised to keep on benefits and I lost out financially, but never regret my decision.

I know you can hold your own op, but mumsnet can be a shitty place. You don’t need to justify yourself to anyone.
People who know, know. Those who don’t love being ignorant.

@AchillesPoirot

Regardless of whether or not you’re a single parent op the father should be paying child maintenance. Since you only have £73 a month for you and your dd after bills (does that include groceries?) even the £7 a week if he’s on benefits would help.

@AchillesPoirot yes luckily that does include the food shop. I'm really lucky to have some help from my mum otherwise I really don't know what I'd do

at anyone who thinks a 20 year old guy is going to be good, solid father material. Choices.

The pre-frontal cortex, aka the part of rhe brain that deals with rational thought, isn't fully developed until roughly age 25.