Why do you benefit bash?

[greyblanket76]

My family and I are working class and always have been. My friends are too and so are the people that I tend to socialise with/meet in everyday life. I've only been on MN since last year but have seen so many comments bashing people who are on/depend on benefits and I'd really like to know why?

Is this because some people on here think everyone that's on benefits is lazy and doesn't want to work therefore claim benefits? Or is it something else?

I'll talk about my situation and will keep it as brief as possible as I already know people will come in the comments to try and shame me. I'm early 20s and a single mum (didn't start out that way but your whole life can literally change overnight and that's what happened to me). I have one DC and I'm expecting another so I've been on maternity leave back to back as I'll have 2 under 2.

I've worked full time since I was 17 right up until I went on my first maternity leave. Due to the rate of SMP, I'm entitled to benefits as SMP doesn't even cover my rent which is £1200. I'm entitled to £1670 of UC which covers my rent and all my bills. During the first 9 months of my maternity leave I was receiving around £1507 UC (due to deductions) + £638 SMP = £2145 a month.
Once I give birth to my second DC, my UC entitlement should go from £1670 to £1907. This isn't 100% accurate but due to receiving SMP, let's say the deductions would be due £1700 UC + £638 SMP = £2388 a month. That would be excluding child benefit for both children btw.

When I was working full time, I was earning £1383 a month. I do plan to go back to work after my maternity leave ends as I genuinely love my work and have my whole career in front of me. However can people see the huge jump in difference between the two amounts? Nearly a grand in total! When returning back to work, I would be entitled to some benefits however because I'd be working full time, it wouldn't be a lot. That's why it's advised that you drop hours to work part time in order to get the most help available.

I've read my post back and hope it isn't too confusing but I just wanted some people who benefit bash to understand that sometimes life on benefits seems better especially as you have kids because you get so much more help. My mum keeps telling me to consider not working for a year or two just because I need to consider the quality of life my DC and I will have. I wouldn't be able to pay for rent AND childcare so what would I do? There's a lot that comes into play when deciding if you should go back to work or just be on benefits and I hope some people got that from this post. Seeing as this is an anonymous forum, if you judge/bash people on benefits, I'd really be interested to hear why. Posting in AIBU because I'm prepared to be flamed and have learnt not to take nasty comments to heart

It would increase her income plus he should be paying

The statistics on the non payment of child maintenance make grim reading. In short, it is very easy to dodge that responsibility with no real comeback. The less you have to lose, the easier it is to dodge. My ex moved his assets off-shore. Hasn’t paid a penny in 12 years. Sod all to be done about it.

@Peppapigforlife

I think what no one seems to realise is that OP's UC monthly payment is high, is because rents are high. If rents were lower, she wouldn't be getting 24k a year, but the average worker would still be getting 24k and have a lot more disposable income, compared to the OP.

For example, let's say everyone's rent was £500 pm. She'd get her rent payment and around £700- £800 per month to pay for her and her two kids. After your rent was paid, you, as an average earner would have £1500 to pay for you and your two kids, and possibly a partner with £2000 a month to contribute as well. The reason OP is better off on benefits is because of the cost of renting. If renting was affordable, she would have an incentive of doubling her monthly income, to go back to work.

It's better to direct your anger to the cost of renting and those who are causing and allowing the rental costs to be so extortionate that is taking up your wages. You're not having all your money go to subsidise people on benefits, you're having all your money go to your landlord.

@Peppapigforlife thank you for this!

Just to be clear, I PRIVATE RENT in zone 1 South West London. I pay £1200 for a one bedroom. I currently get £1670 in UC as I'm in my 10th or 11th month of maternity leave so I no longer receive SMP. Once my rent and all my bills come out, I have £73 left in my account to last DD and I the month. My UC is so high because my rent is high. All those saying I'm eligible for a council flat. In the real world it's not as simple as that to 'just get a council flat.'

You're not having all your money go to subsidise people on benefits, you're having all your money go to your landlord.

I couldn't have worded that better at all!

@StickyToffeePuddingAndIceCream

Your benefits are a bit less than my take home pay (after my student loan and pension are deducted) working full time on 45k. I had to study for years to qualify. When I was on mat leave I'd just changed jobs (granted my choice) so I only got maternity allowance. Can you not see why people might be a bit irked by your post telling everyone what you get in handouts for reproducing really young? I had to return to work after 8 months maternity leave and I'm juggling still breastfeeding, it's hard work.

I'm not sure what you are expecting people to say in response to your post? Well done? Good for you?

It's got nothing to do with her age. I had ds at 20, he is 5 now and we get fuck all. I got nothing whilst on mat leave either, we want "too much" which was actually very little.

This is not a young mums thing, so fuck off with that.

@Peppapigforlife

I think what no one seems to realise is that OP's UC monthly payment is high, is because rents are high. If rents were lower, she wouldn't be getting 24k a year, but the average worker would still be getting 24k and have a lot more disposable income, compared to the OP.

For example, let's say everyone's rent was £500 pm. She'd get her rent payment and around £700- £800 per month to pay for her and her two kids. After your rent was paid, you, as an average earner would have £1500 to pay for you and your two kids, and possibly a partner with £2000 a month to contribute as well. The reason OP is better off on benefits is because of the cost of renting. If renting was affordable, she would have an incentive of doubling her monthly income, to go back to work.

It's better to direct your anger to the cost of renting and those who are causing and allowing the rental costs to be so extortionate that is taking up your wages. You're not having all your money go to subsidise people on benefits, you're having all your money go to your landlord.

I wish I could pin this comment directly under my post. You've literally summed it up purposely. Especially to that poster claiming I have money to spend on supposed 'luxuries'

@Hospedia just wanted to ask as I’m interested. How does the Op get the amount in benefits if the cap is £20k and £24k.

Is the cap a net amount? And how does the OP seem be higher than this?

[quote jesusmaryjosephandtheweedonkey]@greyblanket76 are you actually going to answer if you get child support or not?[/quote]
@jesusmaryjosephandtheweedonkey sorry I must have missed that. I'm a single parent, I don't get anything from their dad. That's a story for another thread so won't be getting into it

I bash the system as it is widely inadequate but not the people claiming.

Because the rest of us are paying for them

wildley inadequate

@PlanetNormal

You are a young single mother with two children under two and you will be receiving £2,400 per month in benefits plus CB. That is so much more than millions of people who work FT earn.

Be honest, OP, you know exactly what you are doing, You are an intelligent person who obviously understands how the benefits system works and you are taking advantage of it to get a comfortable lifestyle paid for by the taxpayer. I don’t blame you, I blame the system which is evidently broken.

@PlanetNormal I've literally said I'll be going back to work after my maternity leave ends but ok. Also those figures are a rough estimate as I've said I haven't worked out the deductions

Of course you’re going to take the easy route when you’ve found yourself pregnant with no security, but you can’t pretend that you didn’t have choices and brush away the consequences with ‘life can change overnight’.

I agree. OP isn't a passive victim of the system. The comments to the effect "why aren't you annoyed at the system instead of the individual"? We'll because they individual makes an active choice to engage with an unfair system whilst others work really hard for less money and put off having children until they have saved / established careers, etc.

just wanted to ask as I’m interested. How does the Op get the amount in benefits if the cap is £20k and £24k. Is the cap a net amount? And how does the OP seem be higher than this?

Without sight of her claimant file to see what elements she is entitled to, her income, her taper points, etc I couldn't say.

@Luredbyapomegranate

Everyone doesn't benefit bash is the first thing, and I think people would rarely bash a person in a situation such as yours. The system is wrong, in that it ought to make sense to try and work, and on many other levels. It doesn't mean people are wrong to find themselves in such a situation. You have to be practical and do what is right for you and your kids in the system as it is. Anyone would do the same.

Apart from questioning the system, people might sometimes question the personal decisions that put someone in a vulnerable position. Obviously sometimes there's nothing the person could have done. But for example in your case, having two children in your early 20s when you are still quite young to know whether you are in a relationship that will last, may not have been wise. Of course it's not 'wrong' to have children young, and any relationship can end, but it increases the risk that your situation will change. They also might ask, as PPs are, what the children's father is contributing to their upkeep.

There are of course some people on MN, as anywhere, who don't have the imagination to conceive of a situation different to their own, or to understand that people are dealt different hands in life. It's also true that MH leans middle class (although by no means exclusively) so there might be a higher than average number of people here who haven't been very hard up, or used the benefits system much. But in most cases, I don't think they set out to bash individuals.

Everything you've said here is true and some things mentioned are definitely food for thought

Not sure how to quote but the question about why people are annoyed at individuals rather than the system. I think most people who are annoyed at individuals are also annoyed at the system.But the reason they are annoyed at individuals is because they see some people on benefits who are able to work (or work more than they do) but are choosing not to because they are getting more on benefits than they'd earn. (I think the OP potentially falls into this group but I may have misread). The fact these people are choosing to get more on benefits is seen as an immoral choice on the belief that if people can work, they should. if everyone on lower income decided not to work and claim benefits instead, then arguably the system wouldn't be able to support it - so people choosing to get more on benefits rather than work on low income is perceived as a "fuck you" to people who are working all the hours on low income and getting less in return.

@Viviennemary

The benefits system is mad. Nobody should be paid more than minimum wage on benefits. IMHO. I thought payments were now capped at £1500 a month

Minimum wage is not enough to pay rent/mortgage, utilities, and other living costs

Because the rest of us are paying for them

Lots of people ‘on benefits’ are in work. You know that, right? So they pay tax. Plenty of it.

Because some people take the piss, we all know someone.

@Sarahbeeney

My SMP didn’t cover my mortgage but I wasn’t entitled to any benefits!

I borrowed 10 grand so I could afford to be on maternity leave which I’m paying back over the next 20 years. You sound lucky!

If all you had coming in was smp of course you would get benefits. the reason you didn't would be either because you had a working partner and earnings were too high or you had savings over 16k. Anyone with savings under 6k and a child and mortgage on smp would qualify for universal credit to top up the SMP. Maternity allowance is a little different .

@Bunnyfuller

I am very angry with the govt. I hate the Tories. Lots of working class people seem to think they’re Gods, and keep fucking voting for them (and don’t mention Brexshit).

But I can also resent people doing what they want rather than perhaps what they should, and then being self-righteous when others pick up the tab for them. I notice you’ve not responded to the people mentioning their own financial situations who despite doing things in a way they could stand on their own feet, now find themselves with no thanks or help? While you rented and decided to have children at such a young age, some of us were working 2 jobs to pay for education, then continue it to get into a career that provided for having children etc.

What luxuries? The luxury of time, the luxury of not having to do everything at 5 gazillion miles an hour, the luxury of not having to balance worrying about your child getting sick, not only as mum worry but how it will affect your job? The worry of the necessity of having a reliable car, and those costs, because it would all collapse without transport? The luxury of not rushing to ensure all family ‘stuff’ is done during a lunch break (if you get them) or after 8-9pm when everyone is fed, watered etc etc.

Those luxuries.

@Bunnyfuller and what do you want me to say to those people? I have no control with what happens within the system. It doesn't make sense for me to respond saying 'I'm really sorry to hear that' when there's literally nothing I can do about it. It's horrible to hear and shouldn't be the way but again, that's an issue with the system not the people within said system

Are you kidding?

Because I've made sacrifices over and over again. Had an abortion rather than have an unplanned child I couldnt afford. Worked incredibly long hours for years to get myself into a position financially where I could comfortably afford a family.

Sometimes it can be galling when it seems the system provides for people who make bad decisions over and over and over again. As if there are no consequences for stupidity. But even more galling is when the governments clumsy attempts to save money result in savage cuts to the NHS and schools, leaving those who least deserve it suffering or disadvantaged.

It’ll be because she was earning and they give you a grace period before the benefit cap is applied. Once it is she will likely be capped at £23000 a year for London which is £1916 per month including what she received for child benefit. Minus the £1200 rent and that leaves £716 per month for all bills, food etc for herself and 2 kids. That will not be a life of luxury at all. And it is mainly landlords benefiting. Everyone seems to think living on benefits is a life of luxury UNTIL something in their life goes wrong, illness, redundancy, husband leaves and it is only then they realise how hard it actually is and how little money you get.

@Sofiegiraffe

Of course you’re going to take the easy route when you’ve found yourself pregnant with no security, but you can’t pretend that you didn’t have choices and brush away the consequences with ‘life can change overnight’.

I agree. OP isn't a passive victim of the system. The comments to the effect "why aren't you annoyed at the system instead of the individual"? We'll because they individual makes an active choice to engage with an unfair system whilst others work really hard for less money and put off having children until they have saved / established careers, etc.

Except we don't know what the OP's situation was. It sounds like her relationship broke down suddenly which can happen to anyone at any age.

If someone wants to have a couple of DC young instead of going to uni/work etc then that's their choice. Those dc then have to be looked after, no one benefits if they grow up in poverty. If the plan is to work and pay some of this monetary help back even if it means still claiming some benefits, fine. What does annoy me is if this pattern is repeated over and over. Then by the time the 5th/6th child is born and this person is still claiming benefits,then that is taking the piss somewhat. Especially to people like us that have worked for over 30years and yet get slated for being landlords.

Has it occurred to anyone that the people on benefits with luxury cars, clothes etc, might be topping up any benefits via criminal activity, rather than benefits?

Apart from ignorance or jealousy, encouraging benefit bashing is convenient for politicians (hence the scrounging narrative) as it helps people keep fighting each other, rather than questioning the low wage exploitation of some employees.

Just here for the comments