Why do you benefit bash?

[greyblanket76]

My family and I are working class and always have been. My friends are too and so are the people that I tend to socialise with/meet in everyday life. I've only been on MN since last year but have seen so many comments bashing people who are on/depend on benefits and I'd really like to know why?

Is this because some people on here think everyone that's on benefits is lazy and doesn't want to work therefore claim benefits? Or is it something else?

I'll talk about my situation and will keep it as brief as possible as I already know people will come in the comments to try and shame me. I'm early 20s and a single mum (didn't start out that way but your whole life can literally change overnight and that's what happened to me). I have one DC and I'm expecting another so I've been on maternity leave back to back as I'll have 2 under 2.

I've worked full time since I was 17 right up until I went on my first maternity leave. Due to the rate of SMP, I'm entitled to benefits as SMP doesn't even cover my rent which is £1200. I'm entitled to £1670 of UC which covers my rent and all my bills. During the first 9 months of my maternity leave I was receiving around £1507 UC (due to deductions) + £638 SMP = £2145 a month.
Once I give birth to my second DC, my UC entitlement should go from £1670 to £1907. This isn't 100% accurate but due to receiving SMP, let's say the deductions would be due £1700 UC + £638 SMP = £2388 a month. That would be excluding child benefit for both children btw.

When I was working full time, I was earning £1383 a month. I do plan to go back to work after my maternity leave ends as I genuinely love my work and have my whole career in front of me. However can people see the huge jump in difference between the two amounts? Nearly a grand in total! When returning back to work, I would be entitled to some benefits however because I'd be working full time, it wouldn't be a lot. That's why it's advised that you drop hours to work part time in order to get the most help available.

I've read my post back and hope it isn't too confusing but I just wanted some people who benefit bash to understand that sometimes life on benefits seems better especially as you have kids because you get so much more help. My mum keeps telling me to consider not working for a year or two just because I need to consider the quality of life my DC and I will have. I wouldn't be able to pay for rent AND childcare so what would I do? There's a lot that comes into play when deciding if you should go back to work or just be on benefits and I hope some people got that from this post. Seeing as this is an anonymous forum, if you judge/bash people on benefits, I'd really be interested to hear why. Posting in AIBU because I'm prepared to be flamed and have learnt not to take nasty comments to heart

@IntrovertedExtrovert1

Really interesting post. Do your family members ever express any guilt at choosing to be on benefits? I just wonder where the difference between you and then comes from.

And it illustrates once again that the overlap where low wages puts the income of working people below that of those on benefits is a real problem.

@AchillesPoirot

Also. I’m perfectly fine and I’m not “a bit slow”.

@AchillesPoirot I called you slow because I @'d you saying the previous post was for you yet you'd asked the same question about three times. Despite me answering it AND answering the question in the OP. I've attached a screenshot. The asterisks are there however it didn't show up in bold, my bad. I still @'d you though hence why I called you slow

I’m autistic. But sure. Carry on.

I read the op. I read her posts. She was not clear. And she did not bold a reply to me.

I am not slow.

Please stop with the ableist insults.

I have explained that your op read as if you were being advised to go part time to maximise the help you would be entitled to.

Someone taking home around 2k per month in benefits is approximately the same take home pay someone on 32k would be getting

I can understand why for a lot of people who work extremely hard for less than that, it can feel unfair. I can also understand that feeling is amplified when the benefits recipient doesn’t see that or understand the value of what they are getting, how hard someone else has to work to get the same (if it’s even possible)

@IntrovertedExtrovert1

Great thread OP, really interesting to see others opinions. It’s something I’ve not only battled with people against but battled with myself against.

I too come from a working class family. 50% of my family members and their friends are on benefits. The other 50% and I on the other hand work full time (I’m currently on mat leave) and we don’t receive benefits. At all. Apart from the weekly child benefit everyone is entitled to. It is such a split as literally my mum and sister receive benefits where as, my brother and other sister do not.

I’m constantly between a rock and a hard place of understanding why people need the benefits but I get so frustrated at how most individuals I know on benefits are capable to work but choose not to, yet are always going out, going on holiday, have their nails and hair done. This isn’t generalising as I literally know and love these people I’m describing and also know that not everyone on benefits spends their money on the said above.

I get wound up when people slag off those on benefits and group them together (especially those in my workplace who all seem to be mega privileged and couldn’t name you one person they know on benefits) and I will always argue with them and defend working class people/those on benefits but I equally get frustrated when me and my partner both work full time with 3 kids, pay all of our bills off but we’re left with a minimal amount at the end that just about covers a meal out once a month. It seems we are just above the threshold to receive benefits.

I and my family members/friends that are on benefits did all have similar starts in life (I had my first baby at 18), we all grew up on the same estate, with very similar opportunities available to us and similar upbringings. I worked full time after I had my son and it’s taken a bloody long time and a massive struggle but I now own my own house. Like I said, not much money in the pot at the end of it but food is in the cupboard, bills are paid and we’re in no debt apart from our mortgage so I can’t really complain. Yet it still does wind me up when I see others with absolutely no willpower to get a job, happily live off of the benefits from the system and yet are out every weekend looking fabulous.

Such a tough one. I blame the system more than the people.

@IntrovertedExtrovert1 thanks for your experience and I can imagine it's difficult as you literally have first hand experience of living a life without benefits but seeing family members live a better life. I agree the system is a mess and those that know how to play it, do. However I think you're better off then them anyway. You'll eventually own your own house and I take that they're renting? You'll also have pension contributions and so on. I guess day to day it seems that they live more lavishly but in the long run you're better off.

As for those that speak on people on benefits but have never even met someone on benefits, this is what this thread has shown me. There's a lot of unrealistic views. One poster told me I have money to spend on luxuries until I explained my monthly breakdown and she admitted that she doesn't actually know anyone on benefits. It's crazy but very eye opening as I never hear anything like this in real life (probably because of the people I'm surrounded by)

@BillMasen

Someone taking home around 2k per month in benefits is approximately the same take home pay someone on 32k would be getting

I can understand why for a lot of people who work extremely hard for less than that, it can feel unfair. I can also understand that feeling is amplified when the benefits recipient doesn’t see that or understand the value of what they are getting, how hard someone else has to work to get the same (if it’s even possible)

Maybe those people working hard to earn the same as the benefit amount made poor life choices? Should have studied more. Worked harder. Let's face it, unless they're Elon Musk, they could have done better but chose not too.

Really @greyblanket76calling @AchillesPoirot slow it's very rude.
Maybe she has just, through no fault of her own, ended up in a set of circumstances where she is an an unexpected position of not being able to understand what it is you're saying, as you have posted many times in different tenses. I'm sure you can appreciate this.

@BulletTrain

"Would be" is theoretical. As in, if I went back to work I would do x. "Will be" is definite.

I don't think it's fair to call people "slow" who read it correctly.

@BulletTrain I said 'when returning back to work, I would be entitled to benefits however because I'd be working full time, it wouldn't be a lot.' The 'would be' had to do with the benefits so what does that have to do with me saying I'd be working full time? Doesn't make any sense

I read the paragraph as a whole.

When I was working full time, I was earning £1383 a month. I do plan to go back to work after my maternity leave ends as I genuinely love my work and have my whole career in front of me. However can people see the huge jump in difference between the two amounts? Nearly a grand in total! When returning back to work, I would be entitled to some benefits however because I'd be working full time, it wouldn't be a lot. That's why it's advised that you drop hours to work part time in order to get the most help available.

And I read it as you were being advised to go part time.

It is not clear. In my opinion.

[quote Shutupandcry]@greyblanket76 I don't really understand how you could possibly go back to full time work after your second mat leave. Rent is £1200, childcare for two children under 3 in zone 1 London will be extortionate (we looked before we moved and was £1000 approx per child). That takes total of rent and childcare to over £3200 a month. Considering then you'd still need to pay bill etc your costs will be so high. You would get some UC/tax credits etc I imagine (I'll be honest I don't know much about benefits and how much you'd get etc). Even if family took the children some days it would be unaffordable to people in 2 person households on good salaries, let alone a single mum renting an expensive flat on (presumably as you are not long out of school etc.) a relatively low salary. Due to where you are living and your situation you are a bit trapped.[/quote]
@Shutupandcry this is what my mum has said. I have a big family so I'm sure I can get childcare for 5x a week however it's not something I've started thinking about in depth so I couldn't give you my breakdown plan of how things will work. I do need to speak to my work coach and housing officer regarding working full time and claiming tax credits (I don't know much about it). But once I have all the information I'm sure I can make it work. Hopefully anyway

I don’t think you can claim tax credits and universal credit at the same time.

But I’m “a bit slow” so what do I know.

@AchillesPoirot

I don’t think you can claim tax credits and universal credit at the same time.

But I’m “a bit slow” so what do I know.

No you can't.

Introverted I agree about the system. I was on benefits for 3 years due to ds3 being seriously ill and needing long hospital stays then round the clock care at home. I was very surprised at how generous they were to be honest and we had more disposable income than when I was working. I wasn't on a 'flat' rate though as ds got HRC DLA so that added on a very decent extra amount of child tax credit. It made me understand why the school mums were long term benefits claimants, as they had no qualifications and back then would have been financially better off not working. Not sure if that is the case with UC though.

If I'm working full time, I wouldn't be on UC as I'd hardly get anything anyway....

As I've said, I don't know much about tax credits and how it works so I can't say much as I have little to no knowledge on it right now

You cannot get tax credits and universal credit at the same time. As you are on UC it will be UC that you are (or are not, depending on earnings) entitled to.

you have called at least one poster slow and implied that others aren't reading your posts.

We are. And in every one you are doubling down on your own opinion as though it is the only one that counts. That is not debating.

As for your claim that you never imagined people might think "blimey I've paid in for 20 years and get nothing and up waltzes OP and gets a shit ton" is hilarious and why i know this is a goady thread.

Because if that had NEVER occurred to you, how do you know people benefit bash? that is literally 90% of what people say when they bash benefit recipients.

So nice try. Are you writing an essay or an article?

Some like to bash/blame because they can't cope with the thought it might happen to them. Thinking it as the other persons fault means they can believe it could never happen to themselves.

@Brefugee

you have called at least one poster slow and implied that others aren't reading your posts.

We are. And in every one you are doubling down on your own opinion as though it is the only one that counts. That is not debating.

As for your claim that you never imagined people might think "blimey I've paid in for 20 years and get nothing and up waltzes OP and gets a shit ton" is hilarious and why i know this is a goady thread.

Because if that had NEVER occurred to you, how do you know people benefit bash? that is literally 90% of what people say when they bash benefit recipients.

So nice try. Are you writing an essay or an article?

@Brefugee last comment to you because I can tell you really do believe what you're saying. I said this in my OP in case you missed it,

'I've only been on MN since last year but have seen so many comments bashing people who are on/depend on benefits and I'd really like to know why?

Is this because some people on here think everyone that's on benefits is lazy and doesn't want to work therefore claim benefits? Or is it something else?'

As I've said throughout the thread. I've seen people make comments such as 'I'm funding your life so why are you complaining about xyz' when a poster has made a post and mentioned that they're on benefits. As I've also said, everyone I'm surrounded by either gets benefits top ups or are reliant on benefits full time. I'm not gonna ask them why people benefit bash when they're not the ones that do it, am I? I'm obviously going to come onto the site where I've seen people benefit bashing and ask why. It's not that hard to understand.

For the last time, such a small percentage of the taxpayers money actually goes on benefits so no, I didn't think people thought, 'I've paid in X and this person is taking out X.' I've never heard anyone say anything like that until I started this thread. I'm not sure why this is all so hard to believe but as you're so certain this is a 'goady thread' then great for you👍

@Brefugee

you have called at least one poster slow and implied that others aren't reading your posts.

We are. And in every one you are doubling down on your own opinion as though it is the only one that counts. That is not debating.

As for your claim that you never imagined people might think "blimey I've paid in for 20 years and get nothing and up waltzes OP and gets a shit ton" is hilarious and why i know this is a goady thread.

Because if that had NEVER occurred to you, how do you know people benefit bash? that is literally 90% of what people say when they bash benefit recipients.

So nice try. Are you writing an essay or an article?

Are you debating or just picking on the OP?

Seems you've added little to the overall discussion.

@Sleepyblueocean

Some like to bash/blame because they can't cope with the thought it might happen to them. Thinking it as the other persons fault means they can believe it could never happen to themselves.

@Sleepyblueocean yes I do think there's an element of truth in this. Someone commented quite early on saying that they used to benefit bash until their DP walked out when he found out their DC was disabled and she found herself reliant on benefits. It was only then did she see the other side and realised how much things can change in a short amount of time. It was a really interesting point

@ShinyS1 again, I am working. I'm just on maternity leave. My whole point of including the figures were to show the difference of how much I can get whilst on maternity leave/if I chose not to work vs my actual salary. Why benefit bash when the system makes it easier for people to stay on benefits as opposed to working full time when they'd get less money. That was literally my point but clearly didn't go to plan as people have only focused on the figures which is 1) an estimate and 2) something I don't even receive right now

Op, my friend is in a similar situation to you, albeit she is older and her 2 kids are older, but in terms of money, she gets a very similar amount, so an accurate estimate.

I agree that the system seems to make it easier for people to stay on benefits, I said that.

The issue is not people who legitimately need help, i.e disability, carers, extremely low income workers, it's more an annoyance that some people make poor lifestyle choices and then expect the benefits system to pay for them.

You having 2 children under two back to back was a choice, it wasn't foisted upon you, you made that call. Yes, the system needs overhauling and looking at, but you are opting to take advantage of it.

Like I said, I don't blame you for taking what is offered, but don't be suprised if people are pissed off about it.

I don't know why your quote was crossed out, I meant to italicise it!

[quote workwoes123]@IntrovertedExtrovert1

Really interesting post. Do your family members ever express any guilt at choosing to be on benefits? I just wonder where the difference between you and then comes from.

And it illustrates once again that the overlap where low wages puts the income of working people below that of those on benefits is a real problem.[/quote]
@workwoes123 I’ve never actually asked them but I can probably guess that the answer is no. My mum in particular feels hard done by often but that’s likely because she has always worked even when bringing up us 4 kids. However her job paid her so little that she did rely on benefits and had little support from our Dad.

My sister on the other hand doesn’t work. She did try and get a part time job when her DD turned 1 and that lasted about 3 months, but her hourly wage was actually less than the hourly payment to the nursery so she was a lot worse off, hence why she stopped working and relied on benefits.

We all had a very loving and supportive upbringing but financially struggled, and for me I always wanted more for myself and my future children, so had to go that extra mile. My sister on the other hand seems quite happy to live that way.

When I look back at what could’ve made the difference I can only really put it down to our teenage years - she was quite rebellious, skipped school, got into a bit of trouble with the police - where as I loved school, loved to learn, was constantly reading. Maybe our outside influences were pivotal here. Love her to bits but we are like chalk and cheese.

[quote ShinyS1]--**@ShinyS1 again, I am working. I'm just on maternity leave. My whole point of including the figures were to show the difference of how much I can get whilst on maternity leave/if I chose not to work vs my actual salary. Why benefit bash when the system makes it easier for people to stay on benefits as opposed to working full time when they'd get less money. That was literally my point but clearly didn't go to plan as people have only focused on the figures which is 1) an estimate and 2) something I don't even receive right now--

Op, my friend is in a similar situation to you, albeit she is older and her 2 kids are older, but in terms of money, she gets a very similar amount, so an accurate estimate.

I agree that the system seems to make it easier for people to stay on benefits, I said that.

The issue is not people who legitimately need help, i.e disability, carers, extremely low income workers, it's more an annoyance that some people make poor lifestyle choices and then expect the benefits system to pay for them.

You having 2 children under two back to back was a choice, it wasn't foisted upon you, you made that call. Yes, the system needs overhauling and looking at, but you are opting to take advantage of it.

Like I said, I don't blame you for taking what is offered, but don't be suprised if people are pissed off about it.[/quote]
@ShinyS1 nowhere did I say it wasn't a choice to have two kids. I said 'I'm early 20s and a single mum (didn't start out that way but your whole life can literally change overnight and that's what happened to me)' that's all. I won't go into more depth to have people offer more unwanted opinions on my personal life, but that's what I said.

As I said, I'm on maternity leave. Not just not working and taking advantage of what I can but I understand your point. People have explained why they judge and benefit bash so I've definitely learned a lot. May be common sense to some but I think it depends on your lifestyle too