Have the wheels come off St.jacinda of NZ

[Radyward]

What!!! spraying protesters including women and childrem with water outside parliament Classing all protestors as loony anti vaxers.no sign of liftimg restrictions ' quite the opposite. Polls plummeting. She is completely nightmarish tho 53 deaths is amazing. Nz is now so woke no one with any brain or indepent thought will go there to holiday / work. She is on a power trip to end all. Poor kiwis

@MarshaBradyo

The other is that NZers are good at keeping the rules, in a way the the UK thinks it is but actually isn't any longer.

What are you basing this on?

We didn’t even have the rules that meant a drop in demand of over £1bn during omicron. Where are you getting the information from?

As noted above I'm basing this on my long experience of living in both countries. I am not going to suggest that every person in NZ is scrupulously law-abiding, but there is a greater cultural expectation here in NZ that people abide by public rules and the number of people who either don't give a shit at all, or who cut a few corners is somewhat lower. My UK parents joke that NZ is like Britain in the 50s. What they mean by that is the behaviour in public. This was definitely part of the reason for our successful response to the pandemic.

Very good posts @mbosnz

I'm from the UK (with extended family in NZ) and agree with you about the UK.

Separately:
Even with 100% boostered, people will die of covid. I just don’t see NZ getting to the point if ever accepting that and as such the cab will be kicked down the road

Even with seat belts and speeding limits people will die in road traffic accidents. I just don't see the UK getting to the point of ever accepting that and as such, like masks and good ventilation for Covid, let's get rid of economy boosting mitigations - seat belts and speeding limits. Leave it to each individual to exercise personal responsibility and their own risk assessment.

Likewise bring on freedom for smokers (don't want fag smoke on a train? Stay home shivering behind the sofa) and opium eaters.

As noted above I'm basing this on my long experience of living in both countries. I am not going to suggest that every person in NZ is scrupulously law-abiding, but there is a greater cultural expectation here in NZ that people abide by public rules and the number of people who either don't give a shit at all, or who cut a few corners is somewhat lower. My UK parents joke that NZ is like Britain in the 50s. What they mean by that is the behaviour in public. This was definitely part of the reason for our successful response to the pandemic.

I think it’s hard to compare as you need to factor in massive impact on behaviour change which was actually very successful here,

We also had huge reduction in cases in very first wave from a high start - if you look at the numbers. The reason it wasn’t deemed a ‘success’ was down to border control, obviously we didn’t exit out to zero Covid

Then also factor in fatigue as the pandemic hit us harder for longer

I too have high knowledge of two cultures (half each) granted a state in Aus rather than NZ, but still a state that had longer zero Covid than NZ even and lower case and death rates. I think people overestimate the difference between people when they think about success re rates.

In fact Aus is a good example of how the variables impact numbers as culturally each state is nearly the same, but other factors led to different outcomes

Tealights

That makes no sense! of course we do accept deaths in car accidents and haven't got rid of mitigations - but these are mitigations that don't impact us personally and economically.

Distancing, masks and in some ways increased ventilation, do have consequences and impact us. All of those things would reduce colds/flu transmission yet we don't do them as we accept a certain level of deaths and we will do the same for covid.

NZ on the other hand is going zero covid and so unlikely wont ever be able to get same level of freedom as they won't accept those deaths.

In UK in a bad flu year we have 50-100 deaths a day from flu and pneumonia - it's not unreasonable to accept similar from covid - NZ current policy would never allow that. Until that narrative changes they will be forever bound by restrictions - all of which have personal and business consequences.

They are waiting for something that will never happen- best case scenario will always be lots of covid deaths per year. Are you saying you would like masks forever? As covid, like cold and flu, will be around forever - there is no temporary!

I don't understand your point wata

Masks and good ventilation do not affect us personally and economically any more than seat belts, child seats, and speeding limits.

Aside from anything else, good ventilation is just generally sensible. Who wants a stuffy building?

And masks are a lot cheaper than child seats.

Then again, no you're right. Masks and good ventilation do affect us personally and economically... They save us money - both on an individual and societal level.

There's the massively reduced risk of suffering long term disablity, the lower risk of experiencing the mental health impact of bereavement. And of course the taxpayer will save huge amounts of money that would otherwise be lost to Long Covid. The longer term Covid damage will be very costly to individuals, families, the NHS, and for wider society.

UK in a bad flu year we have 50-100 deaths a day from flu and pneumonia - it's not unreasonable to accept similar from covid

Why is it reasonable to accept doubled burden to the NHS (and the mental health consequences of bereavement)?

And then there's the financial and NHS burden of Long Covid. Hugely costly.

All for the lack of simple and easy non restricting basic infection control mitigations

By your argument, why do we have smoking restrictions? (And they are restrictions). Afterall, freedom is as you say a human right, and smoking benefits the economy.

www.publicfinance.co.uk/news/2017/08/smoking-and-drinking-save-public-purse-money

Freedom!

Masks do affect us

Who wants to go to shops bars and restaurants with masks - the footfalls and drop in spending showed that majority did not!

Pubs have been dying on their knees with distancing. Table service and mask rules

Clubs have struggled with covid passports

Ventilation is easiest to fix but if it’s so cold that no one wants to visit then it has an impact! Kids have sat all winter bloody freezing for an illness they rarely suffer from. I do object to that!

It may not impact you as you may have covid concerns

But actually huge majority of uk do not care about covid anymore so these mitigation’s are a step too far

As go bereavement - long covid - come on there isn’t a person in world who thinks their impacts are bigger than the societal impacts of restrictions

Even CEV are generally done with restrictions

Footfall fell because people didn't and don't want SARS-COV-2 to kill or disable them.

You say people don't want to wear a mask? A) Plenty are just fine with them (in countrie like Japan they've managed perfectly well ever since the 1918/9 flu pandemic), and B) We all have to do things we don't want in life, eg. tax, sometimes. It's what being an adult in a society, rather than living off grid, is about.

I remember the fuss about 'freedom' when the seat belt mandate came in. People said 'who wants to wear a seat belt?'.

Pubs have been dying on their knees with distancing.

Actually pubs started to suffer after the smoking ban. You can check out the data if you like. It's out there.

As for ventilation. Open windows are not the only way. There are also Hepa filters.

Who wants to pop on a mask for a brief while? You bet that's better than dying a premature death from SARS-COV-2 or the long term disablity of Long Covid.

Tealights omg Masks are awful
Restrictions are terrible -there isnothing good about them 2 yrs in with vaccines available. I mean we are rejoicing in no restrictions. There are people who want them to stay and good luck to them. They can do them and ill do me tks very much.
JA is the queen of knowing what kiwis need and enforcing it as opposed to asking them an opinion. Riding rough shod over individuals right to decideis the epitome abuse . A bit like elder abuse. Oh grandma is 92 ill decide for her even though she might have her own opinion. Disgusting.

Who / what made her god ???? She is high on power and wont give it up. Its totally chilling

Even CEV are generally done with restrictions

A) Mitigations are NOT the same as restrictions,

And,

B) You cannot possibly have completely missed the numerous news articles or even just posts on MN from many CEV and CV (and their loved ones) who absolutely want simple and easy non-restricting basic infection control mitigations.

www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00414-x

Consequences to the wider economy btw (if you're not bothered about the individual suffering).

Pandemics disable people — the history lesson that policymakers ignore

Influenza, polio and more have shown that infections can change lives even decades later. Why the complacency over possible long-term effects of COVID-19?

Tea lights that nonesense

Footfall fell like travel initially because people couldn’t be arsed with the hassle and the rules

Covid fear went 6-8 months in

Right now travel is higher than pre covid - why? Because people want their lives back

Pubs are packed - clubs are packed. No one honestly wants masks even if you do. We won’t accept it because accepting it means accepting it for life.

The average age of a covid death is still sadly higher than the average uk age of death. Well sorry, but we all have to die of something and life is for living.

What you’re after you will never get.

People here will not accept makes permanently to protect a disease that almost everyone suffers mildly from. And masks would be permanent - do you really think the uk will turn into Japan?!?!

You’re fighting a lost cause

(FroM your post I can see you’re much older hence I get your anxiety but you need to adjust as people will never accept masks for a cold - never).

Tea lights

What I do see is that the number of covid threads and posts has reduced by about 90% in last month so they are lone wolves I’m afraid

Goodnight All. I'm off for a stress relieving magnesium salt bath
💉😷

We must save the wolves btw. Beautiful creatures.

As for long covid, most like me, don’t give two hoots about it

It’s another pressure for the nhs to sort

That responsibility lies with the government not us

I think what’s obvious reading the comments from people in NZ is how heavily influenced you are - it almost sounds like brain washing

And they did try a queue system and people hated it so they changed to the lottery.

These are quotes from a person who lives in the UK, and a person who lives in NZ. Shows how rife petty single mindedness and misinformation is. To say NZ is 'brainwashed' suggests the person saying it believes they have the single source of truth--that NZ's response could never have worked. No insight that maybe there are good reasons for the response NZ has had, and that waiting until the vast, vast majority of the adult population is vaccinated is actually a success.

On the flipside, claiming that the lottery was in response to a queue (which there never was) is patently false and supportive of a broken system and feeds the idea that NZers are a bunch of brainwashed sheep. This kind of mindless defence, without thinking of how the system could be improved (small, individual cabins at Ohakea, for example, would almost certainly have prevented both the delta and omicron outbreaks, which were MIQ viral escape) is just as bloodyminded.

I love her. I wish we had a leader like her.

@Watapalava

NZ on the other hand is going zero covid and so unlikely wont ever be able to get same level of freedom as they won't accept those deaths.

This claim is well out of date. New Zealand stopped pursuing zero Covid since around November last year.

@CallItLoneliness

This kind of mindless defence, without thinking of how the system could be improved (small, individual cabins at Ohakea, for example, would almost certainly have prevented both the delta and omicron outbreaks, which were MIQ viral escape)

Are you suggesting it would have been feasible to rapidly build an MIQ facility that would replace the entire MIQ system with 9000 individual cabins (equivalent of the MIQ rooms), all insulated to a level that would withstand the average 7-degree C daily temperatures through winter in Ohakea?

JA is the queen of knowing what kiwis need and enforcing it as opposed to asking them an opinion. Riding rough shod over individuals right to decideis the epitome abuse . A bit like elder abuse. Oh grandma is 92 ill decide for her even though she might have her own opinion. Disgusting.

Who / what made her god ???? She is high on power and wont give it up. Its totally chilling

Are you really as thick as you sound? For the ninety nineth time, surely you don't think the PM makes all the decisions and then they are enacted upon, with no discussion, no voting, no consulation whatsoever. As for being "high on power" you obviously know nothing about her. As mbosnz said in one of her posts, NZ politicians are nothing like the politicians you are used to in the UK.

You might also like to remember that it wasn't so long ago the UK had full on restrictions, people were sanitising everything in sight, being terrified to go out the door, and dying like flies while we were living a totally normal life in NZ.

Squirrel

To be fair that reaction was rarely seen other than on Mumsnet!

I was never scared of covid

It was and always has been an illness for the old and very very vulnerable

Most people I know felt sane and I worked throughout with no masks or anything

Mumsnet reaction doesn’t really portray the vast majority of how uk reacted - it’s the very extreme, anxious people more

being terrified to go out the door, and dying like flies

Not really and also not good way to put it