To think MN has it all wrong re proposals?

[alfayruz]

Inspired by a thread the other day, but also a general observation on here, I was thinking ... whenever anyone posts on MN about waiting for a proposal from their DP, you can guarantee hundreds of posts along the lines of ‘just propose to him....’ AIBU to think this is ridiculous because -

1. Nobody in actual real life does this

2. Having to propose to a man would be a massive turn off anyway so what is the point?

3. Even if you could still muster some kind of sexual attraction towards him, the bar is set at rock bottom before you even start - so why would you expect any initiative or effort from him on any other occasions or general life going forward?

AIBU?

I don’t consider us engaged but DP and I have essentially agreed that we will get married, a proposal is just a formality imo. No one should be sprinting a surprise proposal on the it partner, it should be par for the course that you discuss what your future will look like. There was an article in the paper yesterday that couples who spend more on their weddings are more likely to divorce and I suspect the same principle applies to couples where they put a lot of stock on a showy, instagrammable proposal.

Oh and I don’t want a ring because I don’t like wearing rings.

*springing a proposal on their partner

I think ideas of "romance" probably vary between your perspective OP and others. For me romance isn't flowers and chocolates, I buy flowers for the house whenever I see a bunch I like. I see romance in all the day to day small gestures that my relationship is based on. The cup of tea whichever one of us is downstairs first makes. The feed bins filled up when I go out to feed the livestock. The note left stuck to the fridge, the cheesecake he picks up on the way home when I've had a bad day. Ime grand gestures are generic, the same flowers and chocolates that could be bought for anyone. The small personal gestures mean so much more.

@DiddyHeck

I don't know really. I mean given the vast majority of MNetters who are waiting for a proposal are normally already living with the bloke and have DC with him, the whole 'proposal' thing just seems so ridiculously pointless.

Just about every couple I know in that position have simply decided together to get married. No-one went down on bended knee as far as I know.

I agree. It amazes me when people who have been living together for years, jointly own a house and have 3 children, say they are still "waiting for him to propose". What nonsense ! DH and I talked about it over dinner one night and got married a couple of months later.

I don't know anyone who waited , like a girl from a 50's movie, for the man to get down and "propose" .

It amazes me when people who have been living together for years, jointly own a house and have 3 children, say they are still "waiting for him to propose".

And they're almost always right to take it as a sign that he doesn't want to marry.

I agree it's daft not to have the conversation, but as a sign that a man won't be committing, it's pretty reliable.

@ShadowsInTheDarkness

I think ideas of "romance" probably vary between your perspective OP and others. For me romance isn't flowers and chocolates, I buy flowers for the house whenever I see a bunch I like. I see romance in all the day to day small gestures that my relationship is based on. The cup of tea whichever one of us is downstairs first makes. The feed bins filled up when I go out to feed the livestock. The note left stuck to the fridge, the cheesecake he picks up on the way home when I've had a bad day. Ime grand gestures are generic, the same flowers and chocolates that could be bought for anyone. The small personal gestures mean so much more.

I love this! 😁 I never thought I'd see "feed bins" and "romance" in the same monologue.

Well I proposed, bended knee and everything. Turns out he was a twat and hopefully getting divorced ASAP. So maybe he would never have stepped up.

Sorry to hear that Alonelonelylonersbadidea. All the best in the future.

Women can and do propose so I disagree there. Where I agree with OP though, is that "why don't you propose" in response to a reluctant/commitment phone man not doing so, is nonsense. As if a man who doesn't want to marry his gf doesn't want to marry because he wants to be proposed to! As if a man who hates commitment would be so pleased if this happened!

What's really happening in this situation is that the women has already signalled or usually openly said that she wants to marry. She is now waiting for the man to say the same. Who technically proposes to who doesn't make any difference.

Does this equate with never telling our partners what we actually want, but reserving the right to get all pissed off and flounce/mete out the silent treatment when we don't get it?

Unless people expect their partners to be mind-readers they need to tell them what they want. This singular inability to communicate something so basic really isn't a good foundation for a marriage. As for 'waiting' for a proposal, no thanks. There are other things going on in life.

It’s not entirely mad to like the general tradition that it’s men who tend to carry out the symbolic romantic gestures like being the one to propose.

What IS mad is when it leads to women anxiously and passively waiting for a proposal with no certainty about their future.

You said yourself OP that when a man proposes it should be obvious to him you’re both on the same page. And if that’s the case, fine. If people prefer the man to make a romantic gesture then knock yourselves out. The problem only arises where it is NOT obvious - and that’s where the advice for women to take the matter into their own hands comes in.

Frankly it’s a terrible indication of the durability of a relationship if a woman is waiting on a proposal without knowing if her partner is on the same page about seeing their future together.

@LimeSegment

Women can and do propose so I disagree there. Where I agree with OP though, is that "why don't you propose" in response to a reluctant/commitment phone man not doing so, is nonsense. As if a man who doesn't want to marry his gf doesn't want to marry because he wants to be proposed to! As if a man who hates commitment would be so pleased if this happened!

What's really happening in this situation is that the women has already signalled or usually openly said that she wants to marry. She is now waiting for the man to say the same. Who technically proposes to who doesn't make any difference.

Then she needs to decide if she's going to waste any more time on him, not sure round for something which likely won't happen. If it's a dealbreaker, ask the question and get the answer. Then move on if you don't get the response you want.

What a waste of life hanging on for a proposal from someone who's indifferent to the whole idea!

Wait, not sure. Weird typo.

I proposed to my husband- we had discussed marriage previously so I knew he was keen. There was no ring and still is no ring. We are happier than most couples I know.

My friend just proposed to her fella after 10 years and a kid. They are happier than most couples I know.

It's 'the norm' for the guy to propose but those who think its a turn off for it to happen a different way, must put more importance on gender roles than I do. Those who care about an expensive ring must put more importance on material things than I do.

Fair enough GrumpyTerrier.

Why did he never get you a ring though? Do you genuinely hate jewellery?

We just discussed getting married and then booked a ceremony abroad and eloped. There are no rings. Mostly I find jewellery annoying and I work with my hands so rings get in the way. I wasn't aware I was supposed to sit around like an eejit waiting for him to get down on one knee instead of just getting married. I'm not a fru fru kind of person, rings, proposals, big weddings etc are not my thing. I didn't realise that would be seen as odd by some people.

1. yes they do

2. I would be much more attracted to a man who isn't insecure to feel "emasculated" by a female proposing that some macho twat.

3. see point 2. The bar has been raised from macho twat to decent human being who values his partner as am equal.

(Obviously there are plenty of men who propose who are also decent human beings too, this is just in response to the OPs misogyny)

No proposal. No rings. Just a joint discussion. DP and I had a civil partnership. I have never wanted to be a wife- I have wanted us to have exactly the same title and role. So it's a turn off when men don't conform to gender roles? Like when he does cooking and cleaning and more than half of the childcare? I suppose that's a turn off too,

@Bonheurdupasse

YANBU. It’s performative “feminism” for show.

Rot. If anything's 'performative' and showy it's OTT 'proposals' and identikit 'traditional' weddings that probably cost more than the house.

These threads turn up with some regularity on MN and I am always intrigued by them.

I come from a fairly traditional family, parents married young and are still together 50+ years later.

I had zero desire to get married or settle down or have kids at all. Until I met my now husband.

He was from a family where there had been a very acrimonious breakup and had no interest in marriage having seen how wrong it could go.

We met in our very late 20's / early 30's and were immediately inseparable. We both knew it was totally different to previous relationships and we just loved being together.

I moved 300km to be with him less than 6mths after we started seeing each other and I had no concerns about doing it at all. In the early stages we spoke about our upbringings and how neither of us had wanted to get married. We'd both been in long term relationaships before and had not been in the least bit tempted by the thought even though our respective partners did want it.

Over the course of our first year together we just grew closer and closer and then I got a job that required me to be 300km away 4 days a week and we really missed each other. I think things began to change then and we stopped feeling so casual to focusing more on not wanting to let each other go.

Good friends of ours got married and we saw how happy they were to do so and I think we began edging towards it more at that stage. We had some lovely chats on holidays in Paris directly after that wedding and we realised that we were both thinking along the same lines. we had both done a u-turn really.

When we got home (and we did not consider ourselves engaged whatsoever at that point, the conversations had been more generalised) and I went back to work long distance, we felt the separation more keenly.

A couple of weeks later I came home one friday and he proposed. I was not expecting it at all. He had a beautiful ring made by a jeweller whose work I really admired (but sort of imagined I'd never have one of his rings). It was private and intimate and it meant to world to both of us. We were married in less than 9 months later.

We are married 20+ years now and I have never once felt diminished by him having proposed and I still love the ring. I am looking at it right now and it still makes me smile. Our wedding day was one of the happiest days of my life (only topped by the arrival of dc) and we are very very happy together.

After we were engaged / getting married I have friend who wanted her boyfriend to propose. She was orchestrating it madly behind the scenes - she'd booked the registry office / the reception venue / dress shopped etc ALL without him and before speaking to him. I told her I didn't think it was the best way to go but she carried on. They did get married and are still married several years later!

All of my friends (make and female) all talked about getting married before they actually did, therefore there was no surprise proposal. I also know a couple of women who proposed to men (shock horror!!). I think it would set alarm bells with me personally if a man proposed out of the blue, I would think we had communication issues. I think people get annoyed on here that some women seem to be more about the proposal than the actual marriage. If you want to get married then have a conversation about it, not drop hints, be passive aggressive, etc. I can’t see the problem with the woman proposing - have you ever thought maybe the man like to be proposed to for a change?

After we were engaged / getting married I have friend who wanted her boyfriend to propose. She was orchestrating it madly behind the scenes - she'd booked the registry office / the reception venue / dress shopped etc ALL without him and before speaking to him. I told her I didn't think it was the best way to go but she carried on. They did get married and are still married several years later!

That is clearly bonkers. Arranging a wedding behind your partner's back is insane, whatever the gender. Is your friend Gaston from Beauty and the Beast by any chance 😂😂?

I don't think any normal person would suggest doing any of that. It isn't a binary choice between "surprise proposal by the man" or "unhinged, wedding mad woman booking the registry office without discussing it with her boyfriend beforehand"

‘have you ever thought maybe the man like to be proposed to for a change?’

Well I suppose some men must do (going by this thread) but my DH would have been about it. I do think, still today, most men are not exactly expecting that.

I proposed to DH (on the leap year day!), but we already had 2 children and had discussed marriage. I made a huge banner and hung it at the end of the garden!

I think maybe those couples that are open to either side proposing (or a joint thing) are obviously compatible, and those who have a strong preference for a certain sex proposing are also compatible. Makes sense really. My husband and I split every 50/50 (childcare, housework, mental load, paid employment, etc.) and that works well for us, so it seemed obvious marriage discussions would also be in that vein too. Doesn’t work for everyone, but we are happy and it’s a good job we found each other!