To think MN has it all wrong re proposals?

[alfayruz]

Inspired by a thread the other day, but also a general observation on here, I was thinking ... whenever anyone posts on MN about waiting for a proposal from their DP, you can guarantee hundreds of posts along the lines of ‘just propose to him....’ AIBU to think this is ridiculous because -

1. Nobody in actual real life does this

2. Having to propose to a man would be a massive turn off anyway so what is the point?

3. Even if you could still muster some kind of sexual attraction towards him, the bar is set at rock bottom before you even start - so why would you expect any initiative or effort from him on any other occasions or general life going forward?

AIBU?

Plenty of people in real life do , do this though

It is old fashioned to think only a man should propose

@lightisnotwhite taking control would be doing the asking it would be exactly that , sitting around waiting and moving on until one day hopefully you find someone that wants to get married isn't being in control at all
So you could be with the perfect man in many ways but they may not be in a rush to get married or just not that bothered by marriage , so you either speak up and say how important it is to you and say you want to get married and workout together how it is going forward or you move on to a less perfect person but hey they may propose
Myself and dh got married as we discussed it and when we had a payout from redundancy thought that was ideal time to book, no grand gestures but 20 years later we are still happy so thats whats important

Yes, YABU. I didn’t “propose” but I did raise the topic multiple times, we discussed like adults, and then split the cost of our rings.

There is nothing in our shared life that I would expect him to do simply because he’s a man. Making a decision to share your life and finances is something you should absolutely be in joint control of.

“There is nothing in our shared life that I would expect him to do simply because he’s a man. “

Really? Nothing at all?

@alfayruz

“There is nothing in our shared life that I would expect him to do simply because he’s a man. “

Really? Nothing at all?

I honestly can't think of anything that I would expect DH to do because he is a man.

What kind of thing do you have in mind @alfayruz? I am genuinely curious!

Loads of things actually, when I think about it. Too many and too varied to list right now.

@alfayruz

Loads of things actually, when I think about it. Too many and too varied to list right now.

Can you give us some examples? I genuinely can't think of a single one...

@alfayruz

“There is nothing in our shared life that I would expect him to do simply because he’s a man. “

Really? Nothing at all?

Other than being the one to use a penis during sex, there's nothing I expect my partner to do instead of me 'because he's a man', no. Genuinely.

He's physically stronger than me so he's more likely to lift heavier stuff and I would think it was mean of him to watch me struggle doing so by myself if he could help out. But that's because he's stronger, not because he's a man. It's not because of his sex or a gender stereotype.

@alfayruz

Loads of things actually, when I think about it. Too many and too varied to list right now.

I think this just means you buy into gender stereotypical roles more than some people, just as some of us don't buy into them and most people are somewhere between. That's your prerogative and if it works for you then that's great. I don't get why you're seemingly so shocked it's not the same for other people but within their relationships.

If there are lots of things that you expect your DH to do just because he is a man, the thing about him having to be the one to propose kind of makes more sense, I suppose.

Personally, I'm glad that gender stereotypes have no place in my relationship, but each to their own.

I’m not at all shocked that other orioles relationships are different to mine. That’s not what the thread is about really. It was more about the thread the other day (and it’s a common theme in MN) where a woman was wondering when the DP would propose and the MN advice was ‘just propose to him then.’ . I mean, obviously, if she wanted to do that, she would have done it. And I was thinking, in real life, I would never advise a friend to do that because what is the point?

My dh dangled the notion he wanted to marry me for years, even telling friends he was going to propose then not doing it, essentially because he's lazy. I got fed up and told him if we weren't engaged by x date then I would be moving on and ending our relationship. Yes he then proposed but it was bittersweet as I'll never know if he was doing it just to keep me happy or if it's what he wanted. If I had proposed to him, it would have been much more to romantic than the ultimatum . I don't think telling people to propose themselves is necessarily bad advice but it really comes down to what the real issue is. If you want someone to do something and they don't do it, what does that say? If they don't want to marry you, asking them is the way to find that out sharpish.

@alfayruz

“There is nothing in our shared life that I would expect him to do simply because he’s a man. “

Really? Nothing at all?

You sounded genuinely surprised here 🤷🏻‍♀️

YANBU. I hate 1950's narrative. Every effing time. No matter what you do and say, "feminists" (or rather people who got lost in translation) turn you into shit.

@alfayruz, can you give us some examples of the stuff that you expect your dh to do because he is a man? Are there things that he expects you to do because you are a woman, and if so, what kind of things are they?

Well I am genuinely surprised that people say there is nothing they can expect from their husband simply because he a man. It kind of begs the question - what’s the point of having one if essentially, he’s no different to a woman. You might as well have a gender neutral robot, or something like that.

@alfayruz

Well I am genuinely surprised that people say there is nothing they can expect from their husband simply because he a man. It kind of begs the question - what’s the point of having one if essentially, he’s no different to a woman. You might as well have a gender neutral robot, or something like that.

You seem reluctant to answer the question.

Surely the "point" is simply about having someone to share your life with? Someone whose company you enjoy? Someone who works with you as part of a team? Not just someone who does "man jobs"?

I could quite easily manage without DH. There is nothing in particular that I need him to do. It's a choice to share my life with him, just because I want to.

Are you saying that you're not with your DH because you just like being with him, but rather because he is useful to you in doing the things that you as a woman think you shouldn't have to do? I don't really get it tbh.

@alfayruz

I’m not at all shocked that other orioles relationships are different to mine. That’s not what the thread is about really. It was more about the thread the other day (and it’s a common theme in MN) where a woman was wondering when the DP would propose and the MN advice was ‘just propose to him then.’ . I mean, obviously, if she wanted to do that, she would have done it. And I was thinking, in real life, I would never advise a friend to do that because what is the point?

But what would you advise your friend do? Just sit tight?

I wouldn’t advise a friend to propose either but I would advise that they ask their DP for his thoughts on marriage and for them to have a grown up conversation about where they are in the relationship and what they both see / want in their futures. In fact, I’d think if they weren’t able to do that they were far too immature to be getting married.

Surely the "point" is simply about having someone to share your life with? Someone whose company you enjoy? Someone who works with you as part of a team? Not just someone who does "man jobs"? @AlexaShutUp

Well yes. My Dh is actually very good at a lot of the “man jobs” as in he can mend or make a lot of things around the house - hang a door, mend a washing machine etc. Most of my friends have husbands who don’t do half these things. It doesn’t mean they would be just as well off without these men in their lives.. I kind of assumed that they loved them and had their lives made happier just by being together? But maybe I’m wrong. Maybe there is no point to their husbands.

There's a massive difference between proposing and being the kind of wallflower who never brings up commitment. I would never have proposed, but I did start a conversation early on about wanting to settle down and have kids, and a year or so in I asked about his timeline so that I knew if we were on the same page.

That was a joke above (mostly).

Alexa, I think the only way I can answer you is to say that in my marriage, I do what I feel ones naturally to me and what I’m most motivated to do and it’s the same with him. We don’t worry about doing the same tasks and ‘matching’ each other that way because, for us, we’d just be running round like headless chickens and it would be counterproductive overall. I know MN pedals the 50/50 thing and I understand that. It’s just not what we would naturally gravitate to and it would be fake for us to carry in like that.

I knew that, if I had kids, I would want to SAH. Again, not popular on MN, but that’s me being honest. My husband is on the same page about that and understands the value in it. So yes, he “expects” it in a way. And, the flip side is, that I expect him to take care of everything in terms of financial provision. He expects this if himself anyway and that’s the way he is. To us, it doesn’t matter who earns the money and who does the other stuff, it all goes the same way and we do what we think is best for our kids. So yes, that has ramifications for day to day things I expect him to take care of and things he expects me to take care of. I am not financially vulnerable (before anyone comes in with that). All money is shared. But he deals with everything financial and always has. He’s a finance-type person anyway - I’m not. I support him in lots of ways and I’m much more involved with the day to day stuff with the kids - schools, clubs, friends, health whatever. He focuses on what he does and I have my focus but we are equal because neither of us could have the freedom we have without the other. We facilitate each other. I don’t do loads of housework as I have help in the form of a cleaner , but I don’t ask him to do 50/50 of this it that housework task because I don’t need to. He does loads of admin and other tasks I can’t be bothered with and there things I don’t have never had to worry about, so yes, I’ve come to expect that of him as my husband (and obviously a man). There are things he has come to expect of me and that’s fine.

Don't get me started with the MN obsession that you have failed as a person if you aren't constantly doing DIY and taking out the bins. I just think cool, have fun with your gross bins and superiority complex, I will be over here doing much more enjoyable things.

@alfayruz

Well I am genuinely surprised that people say there is nothing they can expect from their husband simply because he a man. It kind of begs the question - what’s the point of having one if essentially, he’s no different to a woman. You might as well have a gender neutral robot, or something like that.

What's the point in having one if they don't do 'man' jobs?

Companionship, sex, love, fun etc etc I'd imagine.

And 'they may as well be a woman' if they don't do 'man' jobs / conform to gender stereotypes? Well that doesn't work if you're a straight woman does it?

Sexuality isn't defined by whether someone believes it's their job to take the bins out because they have a penis.

You may be attracted to men who do conform to gender roles which is completely fine obviously! But you wouldn't simply become a lesbian if you didn't meet a man you were attracted to who conformed to gender stereotypes, so your 'may as well be a woman' comment doesn't make sense to me at all.

Well, as long as you're on the same page as each other (and it sounds like you are), then fair enough. It's your life.

I would be really unhappy in the kind of relationship that you describe, so dh and I have chosen to organise things differently.