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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think MN has it all wrong re proposals?

691 replies

alfayruz · 13/02/2022 20:12

Inspired by a thread the other day, but also a general observation on here, I was thinking ... whenever anyone posts on MN about waiting for a proposal from their DP, you can guarantee hundreds of posts along the lines of ‘just propose to him....’ AIBU to think this is ridiculous because -

  1. Nobody in actual real life does this

  2. Having to propose to a man would be a massive turn off anyway so what is the point?

  3. Even if you could still muster some kind of sexual attraction towards him, the bar is set at rock bottom before you even start - so why would you expect any initiative or effort from him on any other occasions or general life going forward?

AIBU?

OP posts:
HelloFrostyMorning · 14/02/2022 19:27

hellofrostymorning

What I find odd, is when women sneer, and turn their nose up at a woman who has got a card/flowers/a gift from their husband for Valentine's Day, with the predictable, catty, shitty line 'I don't need shit like that. I want a man who loves and respects me and treats me well all year round, not just Valentine's Day!' As if the man buying the gifts/card/flowers shows fuck all interest any other time of the year.

It's such a stupid obnoxious comment, and always comes exclusively from women who get fuck all off their man for Valentine's Day, and they are bitter and jealous.

@SpinsForGin

There's been a lot of this today ...... it's so depressing and predictable...

I know right. So pathetic. Trying to tell everyone how much you just HATE Valentine's day and it's a waste of money, and just for 'sad sacks,' and it's all so naff, and obviously all the men who get a card and flowers for their wife/girlfriend are hideous to them for the other 364 days of the year.

Just bore off. No-one gives a flying tit about your opinion, so keep your negative remarks to yourself. Your jealous is strong, and green doesn't suit you. Wink

And as the saying goes........ 'methinks the lady doth protest too much.....'

alfayruz · 14/02/2022 19:32

Alexa - He just spoke to my dad to be on the safe side as he didn’t know him and so didn’t want to risk any offence. We would have got married anyway.

OP posts:
RedRobin100 · 14/02/2022 19:36

YANBU

JassyRadlett · 14/02/2022 19:39

It's not mind game, it's not getting taken for granted, and start the relationship on a good base., and carry on the same.

Yep. Still don’t understand why that doesn’t cut both ways.

But as I say, on an emotional level I can’t really understand the desire for or attraction of unequal roles in a relationship or different expectations being put on each partner based on their sex - so setting up those very different expectations otherwise you feel ‘taken for granted’ does feel a bit like mind games to me.

HelloFrostyMorning · 14/02/2022 19:44

@alfayruz

Alexa - He just spoke to my dad to be on the safe side as he didn’t know him and so didn’t want to risk any offence. We would have got married anyway.
Wait, what? Your husband-to-be doesn't know your dad? Confused

Why? Have they never met?

SpinsForGin · 14/02/2022 19:56

If my DH had asked my dad for his permission/blessing I would have lost a lot of respect for him.

I'm an adult and make my own decisions. My dad doesn't get a say!

SpinsForGin · 14/02/2022 19:58

@ThAtSnOtMynAm

Whenever I see a women propose it really makes me think "oh god she's desperate" completely agree with OP
Why?
LionGiraffeMonkey · 14/02/2022 19:59

Do people still ask the bride’s father before proposing? Or do we accept that women aren’t the property of their father these days?

Namenic · 14/02/2022 20:06

Hehe - we decided to get married quite soon after going out. I’m from another culture and family expected DH to ask permission. So the next year was spent with DH getting to know my family/culture and then asking my dad. We picked rings together - and I’m glad we did because when trying on rings, I found I liked ones I hadn’t expected to like. The proposal wasn’t a surprise, but DH planned a day out and it was lovely. I do find waiting a bit weird- I guess I like certainty.

scottishnames · 14/02/2022 20:08

Look, once and for all, big 'performance' proposals are not 'traditional', They are a modern Hollywood/marketing /social medoia invention. Of course people should enjoy them if that's what they would like, but please don't imagine that it's an old or traditional way to behave.

Proposals from man to woman sort of hovered around in literature from the 19th cent, but have grown out of all proportion in my lifetime. I'm not that old, but none of my friends - and almost all of us have been married for decades - expected to wait around for a romantic proposal from a man. Nor did our parents or grandparents. Instead, like adults, like equals, we discusssed getting married.

Medieval people believed that the birds began to sing - and maybe paired off - on 14 Feb (which, because of calendar change, would have been a diffrent day than 14 Feb today). But that's all that can be definitely proved. Chaucer (14th cent) linked birds pairing off with human ditto, but quite what he meant, historians disagree.

Hollywood so often gets things wrong. Romantic marriage was not a thing until a relatively short time ago. Sure, people loved each other or got to love each other, but all this hearts and flowers stuff is modern invention. Love might happen, but it was by no means always linked to marriage. Hence the plots of so many, many, many early stories and poems.

In the further distant past, marriage was usually arranged by parents, or - among poor/ordinary people - was as much a matter of convenience or even sheer survival as love. And maybe one-third of the time it was forced to take place by the Church and/or social convention because the bride was pregnant.

ThAtSnOtMynAm · 14/02/2022 20:08

Spins for Gin - why? ... Because in my view it takes a man longer to decide he wants to get married than a woman, so if a woman's proposing I would think the man really wasn't bothered about it. Mutual decisions are different, not incredibly romantic but different. My view so don't attack me like the last one 🤣🤣

Confusedtraveler · 14/02/2022 20:09

@LionGiraffeMonkey

Do people still ask the bride’s father before proposing? Or do we accept that women aren’t the property of their father these days?
yes, people still do.

People (the man) have also be known to ask the mother who was a widow.

Unless they offer half a dozen cows or a flock of sheep in exchange for their acceptance, pretty sure it has nothing to do with being someone's property 😂

my dad would have been delighted to take a good bottle of scotch as a bribe I am sure

Confusedtraveler · 14/02/2022 20:11

none of my friends - and almost all of us have been married for decades - expected to wait around for a romantic proposal from a man. Nor did our parents or grandparents. Instead, like adults, like equals, we discusssed getting married.

not the experience from my grand-mother time at all.

SpinsForGin · 14/02/2022 20:13

@ThAtSnOtMynAm

Spins for Gin - why? ... Because in my view it takes a man longer to decide he wants to get married than a woman, so if a woman's proposing I would think the man really wasn't bothered about it. Mutual decisions are different, not incredibly romantic but different. My view so don't attack me like the last one 🤣🤣
I think you might need to address your sexist views! I'm not going to attack you but your views are a little outdated ....🤷🏼‍♀️
SpinsForGin · 14/02/2022 20:16

And most adults don't need the Disney view of romance. A mutual decision to get married is sensible but can also be romantic.

Ours was a full on whirlwind romance .... we were married, pregnant and had bought a house within a year. All mutual decisions but romantic all the same.

ThAtSnOtMynAm · 14/02/2022 20:19

@SpinsForGin

And most adults don't need the Disney view of romance. A mutual decision to get married is sensible but can also be romantic.

Ours was a full on whirlwind romance .... we were married, pregnant and had bought a house within a year. All mutual decisions but romantic all the same.

That's lovely to hear. I quit like the Disney view of life. Outdated or not. Everyone is different.
thepeopleversuswork · 14/02/2022 20:22

@HelloFrostyMorning do you find it less "cringe" to sit around waiting for years, dropping hints, circling pictures of rings in magazines and periodically having tantrums and generally being passive about the rest of your life?

If its cringe to take control of your life I can live with cringe.

SpinsForGin · 14/02/2022 20:22

That's lovely to hear. I quit like the Disney view of life. Outdated or not. Everyone is different.

Exactly. Which why referring to someone as desperate is out of order.

I don't have an issue with differing opinions but I can't abide people being judgemental.

lakeswimmer · 14/02/2022 20:36

DH and I had a conversation about getting married (just as we did about moving in together and having children) and then after a bit of faffing about organised a wedding. No one proposed. I don't have an engagement ring, not because I hate jewellery but because I didn't want one, it didn't seem necessary. I have a wedding ring I love and that's enough.

I've got no idea whether this is unusual (but judging by this thread it's not) because I've never discussed any of my friends' experiences with them - I'll be putting that right the next time we go to the pub Grin

FWIW DH and I have a very equal relationship; we earn similar amounts and spilt childcare and chores 50/50 and that's one of the things that makes him a wonderful partner. Other people might want more traditional roles but we're all different.

lightisnotwhite · 14/02/2022 20:39

[quote thepeopleversuswork]@HelloFrostyMorning do you find it less "cringe" to sit around waiting for years, dropping hints, circling pictures of rings in magazines and periodically having tantrums and generally being passive about the rest of your life?

If its cringe to take control of your life I can live with cringe.[/quote]
Well let’s assume you’ve talked about your relationship and marriage. He knows you want to get married “one day”. Why doesn’t he ask if it’s important to you? Because usually there no advantage to him.

Taking control of your life isn’t proposing to someone who doesn’t want to get married.Taking control is moving on and finding someone who does.

Obviously if you don’t care about marriage and are happy to live together/ have kids etc then it’s a non issue.

thepeopleversuswork · 14/02/2022 20:58

@lightisnotwhite

Taking control of your life isn’t proposing to someone who doesn’t want to get married.Taking control is moving on and finding someone who does.

I totally agree that if you want to get married and he doesn't you should move on. But how are you supposed to find out if you can't breach the subject with someone? Your solution suggests you move onto another similar relationship and a similar scenario with another bloke and play another waiting game until, etc etc and just hope you stumble upon a bloke who has drunk the Disney Kool Aid and wants to whisk you off to Paris and whip out a ring etc.

At what point do you throw in the towel and decide that waiting around for blokes to want to get married isn't working for you?

Because the thing is most blokes don't really want to. In the majority of scenarios blokes have more to lose getting married (because they generally earn more so have more assets to lose). A few blokes spontaneously decide they want to get married and propose but the vast majority won't do it until they know not doing it is a dealbreaker. The reality is most women end up forcing the issue, whether that's explicitly or implicitly through tactics like sulking, having tantrums, threatening to move out and so forth.

If I wanted someone to marry me and they were sitting on the fence I'd be fucked if I sat about looking wistful, threatening to move on and generally being a PITA. I'd ask directly and if the answer was no I'd leave.

The "proposal" has always largely been window dressing on the main discussion over whether or not you want to get married. But men don't do it for shits and giggles, they do it because they know its expected of them. The idea that men genuinely want to go through this ridiculous rigmarole of their own free will, rather than because they know their womenfolk want them to, is delusional.

You want it more than he does. Be honest about it and be clear what he stands to lose if he doesn't do it. And be prepared to walk if he doesn't want to.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 14/02/2022 21:11

Re. Valentine's Day:

No-one gives a flying tit about your opinion, so keep your negative remarks to yourself.

Yes, they did. Or they wouldn't have posted a whole new thread asking for people's opinions about it 🤷‍♀️

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 14/02/2022 21:19

@Throckmorton

Fucking hell there is some spectacular crap being talked on here! A man is pathetic if he does not propose and a woman is desperate if she does propose?! Thank fuck most people I know don't believe in such sexist shite
👏👏👏

If my husband had got down on one knee in front of me, I'd have laughed like a drain. Not his style, for which I'm eternally grateful.

If he'd asked my father's 'permission', or expected me to relinquish my own name, I'd have hightailed it for the nearest hills and not come back down. 😱

JaceLancs · 14/02/2022 21:21

I’ve been engaged 4 times and married once and never had a proposal of MN style
I can’t even remember now who suggested either ‘let’s get engaged’ or ‘let’s get married’ it was no different from discussions about moving in together - buying a property of trying for a baby

Noisyneighneigh · 14/02/2022 21:22

I think if men want to do something they'll try to make it happen. I was proposed to, I would never want to propose.

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