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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Colleague sacked for abuse, shocked

186 replies

Cheesestring11 · 12/02/2022 16:13

She was caught on camera verbally abusing an elderly man with dementia, and sacked with immediate effect.

I'm shocked, I got on well with her, she wasn't perfect but I thought she had a good heart generally.

Haven't spoken to her in over a week, but I believe the event happened this week.

Not sure what to do really, just shocked that she could have done it, everyone makes mistakes but that was just nasty. Would you cut contact with her?

OP posts:
zeg3885 · 13/02/2022 18:17

@ritamiller

I'm going to go against the grain here and say get the facts 1st. Whilst I am not condoning abuse for a second I am saying we all have our limits and can snap sometimes.

What was said in the verbal abuse? There is a difference if for example she was doing it all the time to it being a 1 off and just having a very bad day and saying 'ffs put the shoes on', again that's not ok but we are all human and capable of cracking sometimes.

If it was the latter I wouldn't class her as a monster or necessarily cut contacts because she fucked up. But in a professional environment you can and will be fired for this often so you just have to not snap even in the most challenging times.

BTW I nursed my own father through dementia so know exactly how challenging and exhausting it can be,

Agree wholeheartedly People can be bad people People can be good people who have done a bad thing
Missingpop · 13/02/2022 18:18

Yes; it’s a tough one I know; I manage a group of care homes; but there is no room in health & social care for any form of abuse; everyone regardless of their age; gender; sexuality; disability face; religion deserves to be treated with Dignity &Respect; there’s no excuse nothing warrants any form of abuse ever, & anyone perpetrating it should be sacked following a thorough investigation.

Raspberriesbananas · 13/02/2022 18:24

If you want to be friends with someone like that then good luck to you.

Someone who can abuse an elderly person or abuse anyone at all really doesn’t have a good heart generally.

Moll2020 · 13/02/2022 18:40

My Grandmother was treated dreadfully in her care home by a carer, my Grandmother had Parkinson’s disease so needed a lot of physical help. My mother went in to her care home early one morning, walked into her room and listened as the carer was saying to my grandmother “I’ve decided not to be your friend today and I’m not going to help you”, the carer had also taped over the emergency call button to stop my grandmother calling for help. She was sacked thankfully. She was a lowlife bully, you need to stop being friends with this person.

QueenBee70 · 13/02/2022 18:49

I wouldn’t even have to ask that question . I would have no wish to have contact with someone who verbally abused an elderly vulnerable person in this way. My Nan had dementia and the thought terrifies me that someone could have treated her in that way.

Roco11 · 13/02/2022 18:51

I completely agree abusing a vulnerable person, dementia or not is completely unacceptable being dismissed is absolutely the right thing to do.

However is your colleague struggling with something herself? Is this out of character for her? Perhaps she would benefit from a friendly person to talk to and help her to come to terms with whatever she is going through and her job loss. Things are usually not as straightforward as we think.

godmum56 · 13/02/2022 19:00

@Swear

I think it depends on what she did, and in what circumstances. If she was going through a v bad time / bad day and lost it verbally with a difficult patient as a one-off, I wouldn't break contact with a friend over that. She's already lost her job over it.
Nope. as Terry Pratchett said "If you will do it for a good reason, you will do it for a bad one. And no its not the same as caring for your own family member.

its not a great analogy but its like being a professional cook and cooking for the family. If you have a bad day and mess up dinner at home its one thing, If you go to the restaurant where you work and mess up the whole evenings covers, the manager is not going the be understanding!

Notaordinarygirl · 13/02/2022 19:02

Click bait......

caringcarer · 13/02/2022 19:02

I just hope that he person with dementia forgets the incident. Some people are not cut out to be in a caring role.

Livelovebehappy · 13/02/2022 19:14

I despair of th3 care our elderly are getting currently. We need to stop paying the carers minimum wage, and get people in the roles who are at least educated to an appropriate level, with good quality training. Too many inadequate people working with vulnerable people.

Cavementality · 13/02/2022 19:18

I understand how you feel. This person was someone you cared about and trusted and you can't align her with the cruel person she actually is! It's a loss and you must allow yourself time to accept it.

Jk987 · 13/02/2022 19:32

The OP has not done anything wrong so stop treating her like the perpetrator. She's shocked and she's come on here for support. When in shock you can be in a state of disbelief. This is why women often don't leave their husbands immediately after abuse or an affair.

AutomaticMoon · 13/02/2022 19:50

@wingscrow

To those who are trying to explain/excuse this woman's behaviour: she was caught on camera...there is clear evidence.

If she could not handle the stress of the job she should not be working with vulnerable adults.

As for the OP: why on earth would you want to be in contact with someone like this?

You do know that there’s going to be more of this happening, not less, by forcing people into care work who cannot cope in the environment? And they’re being forced to, if they’re job seekers they are pushed into these jobs for minimum wage (or even no pay for sleep shifts where you’re not actually sleeping)

Paying care workers LESS than cleaners is not acceptable. People in this country value a clean house more than a sufficiently remunerated carer looking after their relatives. This job is treated like a joke by employers, I don’t understand why people are surprised about all the heinous outcomes. It’s BS that people care, like @SweetFelicityArkright said, it’s not real care, if it was actual concern, people would demand that care workers are trained properly and paid living wage, at least.

And DWP should stop pushing psychopathic people onto this ‘career path’ just so they can survive. Like Felicity said, managers couldn’t care less of the quality of carer, they only care for quantity, being available for 60-70 hours per week, no life of your own, as it’s the only way you can earn enough money doing this job, breaking your back to fill shifts due to the chronic shortages.

I’ve worked in quite a few different environments in my life, the care home was THE most toxic and harmful. I’d rather be homeless than ever end up in such an abusive situation. I’ve worked in restaurants, bars, night clubs, clothes manufacturing, hairdressers, building sites, offices, I’ve never encountered such awful and sadistic people like the staff and managers in the care home. Not all the staff were bad, but it only takes a few to ruin the atmosphere for the whole house.

JoanWilderbeast · 13/02/2022 19:52

It's easy to be a paragon of virtue if it's hypothetical.

Tzimi · 13/02/2022 20:33

Even the nicest person can be pushed too far sometimes. What were the circumstances? She may have been pushed beyond her limits, to make her abuse the patient.

IcyWinterWonderland · 13/02/2022 20:48

I am glad she has lost her job

Bertiebiscuit · 13/02/2022 20:49

Block her and never have contact with her again - she is toxic now, and no excuse could justify this, she should not have been working with vulnerable people, so it's good she got caught before she did worse - having anything to do with her will only compromise you

Silvers11 · 13/02/2022 20:58

You have been told what happened rather than witnessing it as far as I can gather from your posts so the first thing I would say is, if you like her and were friends before this happened then perhaps you ought to find out from her what actually happened before you judge her too harshly?

You say you thought that generally she has a good heart - so maybe she does and simply isn't cut out for a caring role. Dementia sufferers are very difficult and stressful to deal with and you don't know until you ask her what exactly happened. Clearly she did not behave on that occasion as the professional she was employed to be and quite rightly has lost her job as a result.

But if that was a one off and depending on what she actually said and did and the reason why she lost her temper it only makes her unfit to carry out the role she was in and she may still be a nice person who 'cracked' under enormous strain. We often don't know the private stresses our workmates are under.

On the other hand, she may have been behaving unkindly lots of the time, to lots of elderly people for a while, in which case, why do you even need to ask whether you should cut contact? You aren't going to know until you ask her though . THEN is the time to make up your mind about what you want to do going forward in my opinion

Merlin3189 · 13/02/2022 21:33

I wouldn't be too quick to judge so harshly. I've seen someone sacked for improper behaviour when I thought they'd been a little less than perfect under extreme provocation (which I witnessed.) If you saw it and you think it was bad, then you can judge: if all you know is the comments of a manager, I'd want to give them at least the opportunity to give their account.
Even if they agreed they were wrong, I'd want to give them at least some sympathy. Caring for people whose behaviour is incredibly appalling, can get extremely stressful and even the best of us can lose it. You expect her to continually accept abuse and return only loving care, but she offends you once and that's the end of your relationship?

Swear · 13/02/2022 21:38

@Bertiebiscuit

Block her and never have contact with her again - she is toxic now, and no excuse could justify this, she should not have been working with vulnerable people, so it's good she got caught before she did worse - having anything to do with her will only compromise you
There is a massive, massive shortage of carers in the UK, post Brexit. How many people do you think are queuing up to care for old people with dementia?
Kikibabes · 13/02/2022 22:11

@UnshakenNeedsStirring

You sound crazy. What if that elderly person was your loved one? Would you still feel the same if she abused your parents or grandparents?
👏🏻 EXACTLY THIS!
Mol70 · 13/02/2022 22:40

Maybe the old man was being persistently abusive to her and she snapped? Shouted if he was gone deaf? My dad is 90 , has Parkinson's and is very grumpy and rude, always was. He expects to be treated like an emporer, his carers , my mother and my siblings pander to him. I had to care for him a lot during lockdown. One day I shouted " could you be any more rude?" Does that make me a horrible person?

DitzyFlake · 13/02/2022 22:56

Sometimes people do awful things they regret but I would like to think we could be compassionate and forgiving. She seems to have paid by losing her job - if you genuinely liked her I am sure there may be a bit more to the story. She may have behaved wrongly you should speak to her and reach your own conclusions.

SweetFelicityArkright · 13/02/2022 23:01

This is probably the most sensible thing that I've read about the care industry in a long while, taken from the link @AutomaticMoon posted.

“The government must end the care crisis by showing it’s ready to end a bargain-basement service that puts profits above care and treats staff like numbers on a spreadsheet.”

Care is seen as a job anyone can do, which is justification for the poor pay and treatment of care workers. Well this is what happens when anyone does the job. And the reason that anyone can do the job is because caring for the elderly, disabled and vulnerable is not valued, because they are not valued.

I have worked 4 short staffed shifts this week, I worked 6 shifts in total. The residents are paying for their care, yet on 4 days this week they've not had enough carers to do that properly, no matter how hard I work or how good I am, I'm not two people. Where has the money that should have paid that last carer gone? Have myself and my colleagues received extra? No.
Have the residents received a refund? No.
It's been kept by the company.
On every single one of those 6 shifts I have to be at work 15 minutes (changed into uniform, ready to work) before the start of my shift time for handover. I get paid from the start of my shift, not for the handover, but I'd say it's a pretty essential part of my job, communication is so important in care, yet not important enough to pay for for the provider.
I worked some very difficult shifts through covid, 24 hours, 10-14 days without a day off, for 6 hours one day I was the only carer there, I had the cook helping me with essential care tasks that took two people. Saved a fortune on the wage bill for the company, and I wasn't the only one in that situation by a long shot. I got paid nmw for all those shifts, so did the cook and others.
Through the 'Recruitment and retention' scheme from the government paid to providers, I have received a £25 voucher.
CQC and safeguarding aware (had to be) and the silence is deafening.

New recruits are 'trained' with 2/3 shadow shifts and about 3 hours of DVDs and questions. Even if they've never done care before. Then off they go.

I have an administration of medication certificate, do you know how long my training took? 30 minutes online and I have an official certificate meaning I can administer medication to someone who is prescribed it, I am responsible for administering 'as and when' medication that sedates people when they are very anxious, or morphine to someone who is in pain - but who cannot communicate that to me, I have to be able to read the signs, the situation, know the person.
And I got 30 minutes training and watched doing my first round. I have nearly 20 years experience and I care about the people I look after, I understand what I'm doing and feel confident, and I still feel that it's bloody inadequate training considering the stakes.

Bad carers need to be stamped out, but what will make a much larger positive change is training people properly, valuing the training and development they undergo (and actually making it available!) - I have an nvq 3, the equivalent of 2 a levels, and I'm on the same wage as someone with no nvq or experience, giving the CQC real teeth, not allowing care companies to abuse their staff and then throw them under the bus when something goes wrong and most of all, stopping them profiting from exploiting the elderly and vulnerable and their carers.
There is no political or societal will to do it though. So incidents like this will never stop, no matter how much people shout about how disgusting it is when it's brought to light.