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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Colleague sacked for abuse, shocked

186 replies

Cheesestring11 · 12/02/2022 16:13

She was caught on camera verbally abusing an elderly man with dementia, and sacked with immediate effect.

I'm shocked, I got on well with her, she wasn't perfect but I thought she had a good heart generally.

Haven't spoken to her in over a week, but I believe the event happened this week.

Not sure what to do really, just shocked that she could have done it, everyone makes mistakes but that was just nasty. Would you cut contact with her?

OP posts:
SweetFelicityArkright · 12/02/2022 22:18

@AutomaticMoon

I'm saddened, but not shocked by what you say. I have experienced similar of reporting colleagues for poor care or behaviours and as they are 'reliable' and turn up for their shifts or cover shifts at short notice, or are faster and get more work done, and save money even if that's at the expense of the care given, then nothing gets done until something happens that is taken out of management control to the CQC and safeguarding, and funnily enough, the previous reports never seem to surface then.
Everyone is shocked, the bad 'un gets sacked, lessons have been learned and then it goes quiet and back to normal until next time, because there's always a next time.

For me, the insult of the wage that is paid is only because the resources that are available are being funnelled off into private profit margins and not directed into the care. Would I like a payrise? Bloody hell, who wouldn't right! But, I would actually rather see that limited money pay for more staff, better training and support to enable me to do a better job than things stay as they are and me get more money.
It goes against everything I believe about how care should be done to come away from work after 14 hours, exhausted, having given everything I have that day to still feel that the people I was looking after weren't getting it done well enough and that there's very little I can do about that.
I am recognising the start of burnout or moral injury I think in myself and it makes me so sad.

AutomaticMoon · 12/02/2022 22:36

@SweetFelicityArkright I’m sorry you’re burning out too or getting cPTSD from it 😞 The more empathetic staff usually do burn out first. Yes, it’s egregious because there’s so much greed in care industry and the people we’re supposed to support and the staff have to suffer for this.

CPL593H · 12/02/2022 22:37

@Cheesestring11

He didn't touch her or say anything inappropriate to her I believe, but he just refused to have a wash or something he was meant to have. I won't be contacting her again from now on in any case
I think this (from page 2) needs reiterating among the many ideas about what could have happened that would justify or excuse the friend in all this
AutomaticMoon · 12/02/2022 22:39

@Nat6999

Ds was sexually assaulted over a period of 3 months by one of exh's carers.
I’m so sorry, that’s just revolting, your poor DS! How did it come to light? I hope your DS is on the road to healing after this awful trauma. I hope this person is in prison? Was it a male or female carer, if you don’t mind me asking?
Nat6999 · 12/02/2022 23:27

AutomaticMoon I didn't know anything until I went to collect ds from his dad's & they both told me that the carer had been touching ds when ds who was 11 at the time when he was laid on the floor playing with his Nerf guns. Ds was in the living room & the carer had tried to put his hands down his tracksuit bottoms, ds had lashed out, he had a broken wrist at the time & hit him in the face with his pot, the carer grabbed the Sky remote & turned the television over to a porn channel & exh heard the commotion. It turned out that this had been happening over a period of 3 months, ds who is autistic didn't understand that this was wrong until the day he lashed out, he said that the carer was always trying to touch & tickle him. Exh reported it to the Care company & asked for the carer to be removed from being part of his care team & I reported it to the police but after them attending the property where he lived & checking his computer said there was no evidence to suggest he was a paedophile. Ds was distraught, I had to take him to children's A & E where he was taken in to their SARC unit where he was spoken to by a clinical psychologist & he had to have 12 sessions with a clinical psychologist, he was self harming & suicidal. The carer was removed from our city but we heard afterwards he is still working as a carer in another city.

Wreath21 · 13/02/2022 00:31

It seems unlikely that OP would have seen the CCTV footage of what her colleague is said to have done - if OP was directly involved eg was the HR person or had been asked to accompany the colleague to the disciplinary meeting, OP would have had access to what evidence there was.

At my place of work the company maintenance team recently dropped round to install 'CCTV'. Dummy cameras, connected to nothing. My employers, who are reasonably OK and sometimes silly but not malevolent, thought that having these fake CCTV cameras would deter marauding members of the public. But I don't find it hard to believe that less decent employers would install fake cameras in order to induce compliance in staff and to insist that a troublesome or too expensive employee had been 'caught' doing bad things.

HappySM1 · 13/02/2022 01:04

She chose to abuse this man. That was a really bad choice for her to make.

However, if we shun people who make bad choices, it usually drives them to make more bad choices because they are isolated, angry and unchecked.

Offenders need to be surrounded by support. Not people who forgive and forget but people who they can talk to and resolve whatever issues drove them to the bad choice.

I am not saying that needs to be you, OP, but if there is something you can offer this woman, then I don't see any reason you shouldn't, always keeping in mind that you are not in any way condoning her behaviour.

LoveFall · 13/02/2022 01:18

I had the privilege of working in HR in the health care sector, including many long term care facilities.

This was in Canada, but I am sure that England has similar laws and policies.

Resident abuse was a huge problem, for all the reasons given here. Dementia is an awful thing, it steals your life, steals your judgment, disinhibits you, and frankly just scares the heck out of you. Even taking a bath is frightening. You can lash out.

I have advised on 100s of resident abuse cases. They are always investigated before any action is taken. The worker tells their story. But honestly, there is almost zero tolerance.

There has to be. The residents are not responsible. They're just not. It is the responsibility of the facility to have safety plans.

If a care worker doesn't have the patience to slowly and carefully feed someone, and instead stuffs the food in until the resident chokes (a case I had), then that person can't be a care worker.

It is so so difficult.

AutomaticMoon · 13/02/2022 02:06

@Nat6999 OMG that’s just revolting! That ‘carer’ should be named and shamed. That’s irrelevant that the police didn’t find stuff on his computer, he sexually assaulted your son, a vulnerable child, while he was there to ‘care’ for his dad, I presume since he’s needing care, he’s also vulnerable? Just incredible! I’m so sorry this happened to your ds, it’s just awful. You’re doing great supporting him, I wish I had support after SA in foster care. I hope your son processes this now with the support and hopefully he won’t be affected into his adulthood.

Nat6999 · 13/02/2022 04:04

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ as it contains identifying details about someone in RL.

wingscrow · 13/02/2022 07:35

To those who are trying to explain/excuse this woman's behaviour: she was caught on camera...there is clear evidence.

If she could not handle the stress of the job she should not be working with vulnerable adults.

As for the OP: why on earth would you want to be in contact with someone like this?

Fatmax22 · 13/02/2022 07:54

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ as it repeats a deleted post.

godmum56 · 13/02/2022 08:42

@Wreath21

It seems unlikely that OP would have seen the CCTV footage of what her colleague is said to have done - if OP was directly involved eg was the HR person or had been asked to accompany the colleague to the disciplinary meeting, OP would have had access to what evidence there was.

At my place of work the company maintenance team recently dropped round to install 'CCTV'. Dummy cameras, connected to nothing. My employers, who are reasonably OK and sometimes silly but not malevolent, thought that having these fake CCTV cameras would deter marauding members of the public. But I don't find it hard to believe that less decent employers would install fake cameras in order to induce compliance in staff and to insist that a troublesome or too expensive employee had been 'caught' doing bad things.

I presume that was to deter theft by the public? Not at all the same. If an employee is caught on camera then that filmed evidence would have to be avaialble at any disciplinary action. If someone said to me that I had been caught on camera doing something that I had not done, my FIRST ereaqction would be to say show me the evidence and if they refused to produce it then my second reaction would be to go to my union or ACAS...even my local paper to get it sorted. I think it would be a very stupid firm indeed who would try to sack an employee on the basis of dummy webcams when the allegation is so serious.
godmum56 · 13/02/2022 08:48

@wingscrow

To those who are trying to explain/excuse this woman's behaviour: she was caught on camera...there is clear evidence.

If she could not handle the stress of the job she should not be working with vulnerable adults.

As for the OP: why on earth would you want to be in contact with someone like this?

This. I repeat my comment AGAIN that from a management point of view, its a bad idea for an existing employee to stay in touch with someone dismissed for such a serious allegation. If its a close friiend or family member then OP might be prepared to go to the barricades for them, but as I said, you may know a person by the company they keep.
x2boys · 13/02/2022 10:20

If the colleague who verbally abused the patient with Dementia was male rather than female I can guarantee,posters wouldn't be looking to excuse his behaviour.

Weareallvirgins · 13/02/2022 17:24

Are you actually fucking serious darling???
Wow. Make any contact with her and your as bad as collegue you nimrod.

Grrrrdarling · 13/02/2022 17:25

I don’t associate with nasty people as I don’t want to be labelled in the same category from an association.
Whether you would behave like she has or not staying friends with someone like that is condoning their behaviour & just asking for trouble to come your way.
Mud sticks & when it is being thrown around it is better to not be anywhere near the target!
If there was any doubt as to whether the incident happened or not you could offer support but there is clearly no doubt so stay well away.

Weareallvirgins · 13/02/2022 17:25

Dont need management slilks to no its a no go area. She must have a bloody tile loose the op

capricornone · 13/02/2022 17:28

I thought the answer was obvious Confused

happyjules · 13/02/2022 17:43

I absolutely would cut contact and I wouldn't want any care worker who wanted to remain in touch with them caring for my lover one either.

balalake · 13/02/2022 17:44

I would cut contact.

I can understand if you thought her to be a good colleague that it comes as a shock to you.

VaizyCrazyDaizy · 13/02/2022 17:46

I worked for a short time in ‘top’ care home. Got a lot of physical stuff from residents, hit across head twice, but never said anything or reacted as they had no comprehension of what they were doing. However I did leave after witnessing horrible non care from apparently amazing staff?! Dementia sufferers need better care.

WheresThatCatGoneNow · 13/02/2022 17:50

Kneejerk reactions like cutting contact and blocking people rarely end well for anyone.

Get all the facts you can before making any decisions.

Swear · 13/02/2022 17:52

I think it depends on what she did, and in what circumstances. If she was going through a v bad time / bad day and lost it verbally with a difficult patient as a one-off, I wouldn't break contact with a friend over that. She's already lost her job over it.

Hippoh · 13/02/2022 18:17

@cuno

No, why would I cut contact? She sounds delightful... not.

Can't believe you've had to come on Mumsnet to ask whether to stay friends with someone who abused an elderly person with dementia at your workplace. Are you sure you're even cut out for this role yourself??

Must be nice… never shouted at children or ever got cross with them x I believe you have no friends then? Are you sure you are a good mum!
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