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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Part 7.5

998 replies

jgw1 · 11/02/2022 17:37

AIBU to still be enjoying falls?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
CorrBlimeyGG · 15/02/2022 19:09

Well, Peston is saying BJ's defence is they weren't parties but gatherings of workers, all part of the working day and that he went back to work immediately afterwards, none the worse for wear, fit an able to carry out his duties.

The difficulty for the police is that, if they accept his 'explanation', then they surely cannot fine anyone for the given dates. It cannot be a work gathering for one person but a party for another...

I want to know who decided this would be dealt with by way of questionnaire. Should I ever be accused of an offence, I'll calmly suggest the police send me a questionnaire for my consideration.

DuncinToffee · 15/02/2022 19:18

.

Part 7.5
cakeorwine · 15/02/2022 19:19

So we should have gone into work and had social events during work as part of the working day and evening....

And that would have been acceptable?

I wonder how he or his Ministers will explain that.

I wonder what the actual guidance was in Downing Street. We had written risk assessments with mitigations to keep ourselves and colleagues as safe as we could.

Socially distanced desks.
Not many people in at the same time
Not mixing teams or even mixing offices.
Some teams had perspex dividers.

Kitchen was few people in at once.

All ways to ensure that social distancing and as few contacts as possible were made.

Did we do the right thing?

derxa · 15/02/2022 19:22

Did we do the right thing? No you didn't

Alexandra2001 · 15/02/2022 19:32

@CorrBlimeyGG

Well, Peston is saying BJ's defence is they weren't parties but gatherings of workers, all part of the working day and that he went back to work immediately afterwards, none the worse for wear, fit an able to carry out his duties.

The difficulty for the police is that, if they accept his 'explanation', then they surely cannot fine anyone for the given dates. It cannot be a work gathering for one person but a party for another...

I want to know who decided this would be dealt with by way of questionnaire. Should I ever be accused of an offence, I'll calmly suggest the police send me a questionnaire for my consideration.

i suspect there is some collusion between no10 & the Met, so all this is just a charade
Alexandra2001 · 15/02/2022 19:34

@cakeorwine No reason to explain anything is there? either way they will say the matter is now closed... just like they all did when Patel was found to have been a bully and BJ let her off.

cakeorwine · 15/02/2022 19:39

It cannot be a work gathering for one person but a party for another

Bloody Government guidance

www.gov.uk/government/publications/full-guidance-on-staying-at-home-and-away-from-others/full-guidance-on-staying-at-home-and-away-from-others

To make sure people are staying at home and apart from each other, the government has prohibited by law all public gatherings of more than two people, except for very limited purposes:

where the gathering is of a group of people who live together in the same household – this means that a parent can, for example, take their children to the shops if there is no option to leave them at home
where the gathering is essential for work purposes - but workers should try to minimise all meetings and other gatherings in the workplace

itsgettingweird · 15/02/2022 19:43

@ENoeuf

Let’s hope I lose!
Such a simple statement - but says so much. I'll give you a Wine as a head start Grin
ENoeuf · 15/02/2022 19:47

@itsgettingweird thank you - party at mine in May and I won’t be a sore loser 😂

itsgettingweird · 15/02/2022 19:48

@derxa

Did we do the right thing? No you didn't
Why don't you think it was the right thing?
AuldAlliance · 15/02/2022 19:48

There are a few problems with suggesting that the rules were stupid and that therefore people should have ignored them. I believe we have covered them several times, but my job description involves repeating things, so...

-The rules were based on what scientists knew and learnt as they went along and they were aimed at reducing contagion and saving lives.
That is not stupid.

-Other measures that could have been put in place weren't, because the PM didn't attend Cobra meetings, the government dragged its feet, let Ascot and other events go ahead, etc. Many people saw that, saw the case rate and death rate rising fast, and tried to reduce contagion themselves, as best they could. They had to be in the workplace to work, but they maintained social distancing and avoided drinking, or eating together in the workplace because that was not essential and because an airborne virus is transmitted during that type of activity.
That is not stupid.

-There are actual stupid rules (not being allowed to say the PM is lying to Pmt when everyone on the planet knows he is, for instance), but those who break them are systematically punished.

However, stupidity is subjective to an extent and either rules are rules, and stupid ones need to be reviewed, or else they are an à la carte menu. When rules are an à la carte menu, that's the end of the rule of law.

That's where things are headed fast now, because the rules the Tories in power consider stupid are so numerous (rules governing public tenders and contracts; tax rules; rules regarding whom to nominate to certain positions; rules to regulate effluent emission...) and because they are willing to break them repeatedly and openly.

That's rules.

Then there's basic human decency (not letting kids go hungry; not imposing policies that lead to poverty; not smearing politicians and exposing them to death threats; not lying repeatedly to the country). But once you've done away with the rules that more or less bind a society together, and once you show that some people are above the rules, then there's bugger all chance of basic human decency filling in many gaps.

Blossomtoes · 15/02/2022 19:50

@DuncinToffee

And what about the 2 parties he apologised for, will the now count as work events? Meaning he lied to the queen again.
I thought he was at Chequers on the night in question? He’s not in the frame for those.
cakeorwine · 15/02/2022 19:50

These are Goverment guidelines for working in offices.

They make interesting reading

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5eb97e7686650c278d4496ea/working-safely-during-covid-19-offices-contact-centres-041120.pdf

I wonder if Downing Street read them?

It must have been hard if you were a Downing Street employee to complain about guidelines if people weren't following Government guidelines.

AuldAlliance · 15/02/2022 19:53

Short version of that rant:

cakeorwine did the right thing, in terms both of the rules and of basic human decency, in trying to avoid situations in the workplace where contagion was considered to be a risk.

AdamRyan · 15/02/2022 19:54

Pestons article is funny actually
www.itv.com/news/2022-02-15/what-is-the-pms-defence-to-the-charge-he-attended-illegal-parties

I am told that the relevant test - or at least so his lawyers believe - is whether he went back to "proper" work immediately after drinking a glass of wine in the Downing Street garden or being ambushed by birthday cake in the cabinet office, or saying goodbye to a colleague in a haze of prosecco or singing along to Abba in the study of his Downing Street flat.

Sounds like his lawyers were reading some of the earlier threads.
"Its not a party if you are sober enough to send an email afterwards....."

DuncinToffee · 15/02/2022 21:35

Sebastian Payne also has a twitter thread on it
twitter.com/sebastianepayne/status/1493690622905094145?s=21

Johnson is just unlucky to be ambushed so many times, the incomplete clown

Alexandra2001 · 15/02/2022 21:54

@DuncinToffee

Sebastian Payne also has a twitter thread on it twitter.com/sebastianepayne/status/1493690622905094145?s=21

Johnson is just unlucky to be ambushed so many times, the incomplete clown

Clown he maybe but he is a very clever, evil and dishonourable one... Its a brave MET who will disagree with the PM and fine him....

He'll get away with this and gain even more support for doing so, just like Trumps tax dodging "We all like paying less tax...Good on him"

Notonthestairs · 15/02/2022 21:57

I wonder what will happen if the Sue Gray report (if we ever see it) contradicts the PM's version of events.

CryingAtTheDiscotheque · 15/02/2022 21:59

Adam Wagner is highly sceptical of the supposed “defence” raised by Johnson’s lawyers

DuncinToffee · 15/02/2022 22:14

David Allen Green is calling it wishful thinking at the moment as so many unknowns.

AuldAlliance · 16/02/2022 06:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

jgw1 · 16/02/2022 06:53

@DuncinToffee

And what about the 2 parties he apologised for, will the now count as work events? Meaning he lied to the queen again.
He wasn't at those, so is perfectly happy to hang out those who were?
OP posts:
jgw1 · 16/02/2022 06:56

Why don't you think it was the right thing?

Because Boris is my hero and but Jeremy Corbyn.

OP posts:
jgw1 · 16/02/2022 07:02

@DuncinToffee

Sebastian Payne also has a twitter thread on it twitter.com/sebastianepayne/status/1493690622905094145?s=21

Johnson is just unlucky to be ambushed so many times, the incomplete clown

I thought the argument was that Boris is a clown and therefore was working in his role as a clown at these parties?

Has that now changed to Johnson is so anti-social that his very presence at a party immediately changes it from a party to very hard work?

OP posts:
cakeorwine · 16/02/2022 07:32

Has that now changed to Johnson is so anti-social that his very presence at a party immediately changes it from a party to very hard work

Do you think the conversation changes when 'the boss' turns up and they stop discussing where they want to go on holiday and start talking about serious work things Grin