To say post natal depression is limited to women?

[user7643789]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-60319568

I do believe men can experience depression at any stage in life but as they cannot give birth they don't experience the hormonal and physical response.

@SleepingStandingUp why do we always have to protect mens feelings are not hurt when we are discussing women?

We are not equal and we never have been. Thats why the being a women is a protect characteristic because since time began we have always been at the bottom of the pile. This is a mans world, it is seen in business, employment, in health care, education - everything.

It really is time women started to protect other women because every thing we have really worked hard for is being stealthily taken away.

Now including the fact that giving birth isn't exclusive to women...

[quote SleepingStandingUp]@Sprucewillis I think a seperate name would be helpful, retain PND for the woman who's given birth (because it isn't just male and female, presumably a lesbian partner is in the same position as a man and they'd equally be unentitled to the term PND.
I was injecting to the "women get it through no fault of their own, men are just childish if they get it".[/quote]
Agreed PND is the label only for the birthing woman. A lesbian partner would not be able to claim they had PND. They would also have depression.

[quote Lockedoorsopen]@SleepingStandingUp why do we always have to protect mens feelings are not hurt when we are discussing women?

We are not equal and we never have been. Thats why the being a women is a protect characteristic because since time began we have always been at the bottom of the pile. This is a mans world, it is seen in business, employment, in health care, education - everything.

It really is time women started to protect other women because every thing we have really worked hard for is being stealthily taken away.

Now including the fact that giving birth isn't exclusive to women...[/quote]
Completely agree with this. I had PNA and PND and it was so different to depression I have experienced at other times in my life.

Tongue in cheek but women can't have anything for ourselves lately!

For anyone falling into the trap of thinking that every conversation about women's health/rights/existence also needs a nod to men, remember this opinion by the woman who has founded charitable foundations for both men's mental health and women's mental health. The different public responses are unsurprising
victimfocusblog.com/2018/01/03/stop-asking-me-what-about-men/

Clymene

I agree with you.

There are countless posts by women on MN about their male partners not wanting to look after the baby, becoming distant, going out with friends all the time, not doing housework, pushing her to have sex weeks after giving birth.

To turn the question around - why does it have to be called post natal (or post giving birth) depression when its men? Why can't it be depression triggered by becoming a parent?

Honestly because it will be seen as not as serious. Making a grab from womens experiences, rights and titles is the golden chalice at the moment.

[quote Dutch1e]For anyone falling into the trap of thinking that every conversation about women's health/rights/existence also needs a nod to men, remember this opinion by the woman who has founded charitable foundations for both men's mental health and women's mental health. The different public responses are unsurprising
victimfocusblog.com/2018/01/03/stop-asking-me-what-about-men/[/quote]
She is great I follow her on twitter

[quote Dutch1e]For anyone falling into the trap of thinking that every conversation about women's health/rights/existence also needs a nod to men, remember this opinion by the woman who has founded charitable foundations for both men's mental health and women's mental health. The different public responses are unsurprising
victimfocusblog.com/2018/01/03/stop-asking-me-what-about-men/[/quote]
Ironic statement given this is a conversation about an article focusing on men's health. The reality is that people, whether they are women or men, just don't want to be excluded and forgotten.

[quote Lockedoorsopen]@SleepingStandingUp why do we always have to protect mens feelings are not hurt when we are discussing women?

We are not equal and we never have been. Thats why the being a women is a protect characteristic because since time began we have always been at the bottom of the pile. This is a mans world, it is seen in business, employment, in health care, education - everything.

It really is time women started to protect other women because every thing we have really worked hard for is being stealthily taken away.

Now including the fact that giving birth isn't exclusive to women...[/quote]
Well I'm not bothered about hurting men's feelings, if they're in this thread to get their feelings hurt they're capable of defending themselves.

However that doesn't mean I have to agree with "women get depression because their lives are hard and men get depression because they're childish prats" which is the central tenet of some of these posts.

That isn't about protecting the feels of poor men. It's acceptance that some people with depression of experiencing suicidal ideology aren't more worthy than others based on chromosomes.

He no longer participated in activities he used to enjoy, such as exercising and watching sports with friends.
Its a loaded comment.
He no longer participates because he's been told by his partner he isn't allowed out anymore, because his friends have stopped asking him and he's isolated, because there's three kids to look after and he hasn't got time, because his wife has PND and he's having to care for themselves, because his partner moans so he sits in the spare room playing xbox all day. Does he still see friends, does he have a social network etc. None of those require answers because it's immaterial. The point is one vague comment and its "so he's a bit sad, pretending he's got depression to absolve himself of growing up. Arsehole".
If I as a woman said since having my 4 mo I haven't seen friends without baby and don't feel I can get out to excersie I'd be told it's the man's fault for not supporting me, just leave hi Keith the baby, LTB, I should have as much free time as I need.

Now I arguably need more free time cos I ma SAHP and he works but that doesn't mean us being sad out lifestyle is totally different now makes him an awful person but me a rational one.

As a mother of sons, I refuse to tow the MN line that all men are fundamentally wrong and bad.

But I do agree it needs a different t title be it the Dad, the other Mom, the adoptive parent etc. Parental Anxiety??

Your comments are interesting Sleeping, "His partner moans" "He isn't allowed out", you place blame on the Mother.

@Impier I think you have got the wrong end of the stick on this thread.

It is not a thread about focusing about mens mental health.

This is a thread about womens mental health being appropriated by men.

@Clymene

I think a lot of men are unhappy when their partners have a baby because they are no longer the centre of attention.

It's narcissistic rage rather than depression

I fully agree with this, and it's way too common. I would t have believed a grown man could act like this had I not experienced it.

Still important not to trivialise men's mental health in general. A lot of those jumpers in front of trains every week will be men, and god forbid it could be someone you know.

It is not a thread about focusing about mens mental health.

This is a thread about womens mental health being appropriated by men.

Exactly.

Healthcare: PND is experienced by women
Bungling headline: Men do too! What about the men?

I think a new term should be coined - post natal realisation. The realisation that your life is now changed forever and it’s going to be shit for quite a bit of the time. And I think both women and men can suffer that for the same reasons. And yes you could get depressed about it. But PND as we know it could only relate to the woman as she’s gone through the vast hormonal changes and given birth. Wonder what the stats are for women/men who have adopted or become mothers/fathers in a same sex relationship

No, I think post natal should be reserved for women because they can actually give birth and have some serious risks as a result.

[quote Dutch1e]For anyone falling into the trap of thinking that every conversation about women's health/rights/existence also needs a nod to men, remember this opinion by the woman who has founded charitable foundations for both men's mental health and women's mental health. The different public responses are unsurprising
victimfocusblog.com/2018/01/03/stop-asking-me-what-about-men/[/quote]
Thank you, excellent and sad article on that blog.

@Dutch1e The nhs claims this affects males too 🙄

“Overview - Postnatal depression

Postnatal depression is a type of depression that many parents experience after having a baby.

It's a common problem, affecting more than 1 in every 10 women within a year of giving birth. It can also affect fathers and partners.

It's important to seek help as soon as possible if you think you might be depressed, as your symptoms could last months or get worse and have a significant impact on you, your baby and your family.”

“Myths about postnatal depression

Postnatal depression is often misunderstood and there are many myths surrounding it.

These include:

postnatal depression is less severe than other types of depression – in fact, it's as serious as other types of depression
postnatal depression is entirely caused by hormonal changes – it's actually caused by many different factors
postnatal depression will soon pass – unlike the "baby blues", postnatal depression can persist for months if left untreated and in a minority of cases it can become a long-term problem.
postnatal depression only affects women – research has actually found that up to 1 in 10 new fathers become depressed after having a baby
These factors are equally true of antenatal depression.“

@Dutch1e I don’t know if you saw where I posted that the threshold for PND in men is lower than in women, it’s actually easier to get diagnosed as a man with it.

@AutomaticMoon no, I'm sorry I missed the bit about a lower threshold for diagnosis! Ffs, how very #bekind of us all. Most days I could scream, not about just this one thing but the seemingly endless occurrences of misogyny repackaged as open-mindedness.

A lot of men really can't stand the thought that something, somewhere, might not include them.

research has actually found that up to 1 in 10 new fathers become depressed after having a baby

So, when your life suddenly and dramatically changes and you have a whole new raft of responsibilities and difficulties you didn't have before and your most important relationships are irrevocably changed and your identity has undergone a massive adjustment and you're probably short on money and low on sleep and your partner hasn't got a lot of time for you and needs physical and emotional help and you're culturally required to pretend everything is fine, 10% of people get an adjustment disorder? Who would've thought.

Still not PND.

Not PND but something else. Like kids get after all the excitement of Christmas or their birthday.

I think new Dads can experience an Adjustment Disorder but would be worried that suggesting men can experience PND actually takes away from a condition, which is for the most part is caused by physical factors relating to giving birth (i.e. the hormonal and physical impact of pregnancy and birth) and which often has different features to clinical Depression.

@Dutch1e Tell me about it, it’s too much, garbage masquerading as science is distorting society even further.