To say post natal depression is limited to women?

[user7643789]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-60319568

I do believe men can experience depression at any stage in life but as they cannot give birth they don't experience the hormonal and physical response.

Sadly, in my very short lived career in clinical negligence I dealt with two cases of women who died from PND. They were both healthy women in their 30s with no history of mental illness prior to birth. One jumped from a multi story car park, the other jumped in front of a train. It's a very serious illness that requires it's own research and it's own clinical guidelines. Lumping it in with men will dilute that research to the detriment of women.

@Mamette

I got absolutely battered on a thread about 3 or 4 years ago on this topic.

have not done any searches but i would be surprised if there are not academic studies out there which show that men go through hormonal changes whilst their wife is pregnant, when she gives birth and after the baby is born.

Sorry but this is just hilarious 😂

Not me who posted that, but why hilarious?

I think my PND was about how my life changed, i still have it 2years later. I think perhaps we need 2 different description of depression after a baby is born. For me i don’t think it was hormonal necessarily, I just adjusted badly.

As PP perhaps saying reactive depression can occur for men and women and only post natal for women.

I think the term should be protected for women. Women are at risk of psychosis following delivery because of what is happening in their body. It is an experience unique to the female body. Suggesting men are in the same boat risks passing over that reality, risking women's lives and leaving science behind. Men are not at this risk because they're not postnatal anymore than they were antenatal.

However it's not a competition and I'm very willing to acknowledge that men can be vulnerable to situational depression at this time - maybe they can create their own word.

have not done any searches but i would be surprised if there are not academic studies out there which show that men go through hormonal changes whilst their wife is pregnant, when she gives birth and after the baby is born.

Well, yes. But they're not hormones specific to the experience of having a baby, just common or garden depression related imbalances.

Just the bare-faced cheek of it @Somethingsnappy

I agree OP. And I feel like the PND that women experience, and the depression that a new father experiences, present very very differently.

Also the number of threads I've seen where a woman has just given birth and is getting little support from her partner who is acting like a dickhead, and people pipe up with "could he have post natal depression?" Gives me the rage.

Men can experience MH issues after their partner has a baby. These are most likely to be adjustment disorder, depression, PTSD. They should be taken seriously.

However, men do not experience PND.

Both me and my husband suffered postnatal depression after our longed for daughter was stillborn.

I would actually be very angry if I lost a baby and I was told I’m sad simply because of PND, something that is caused by the massive hormonal changes and affects many women who haven’t lost their baby.

Goooglebox and others who think my thoughts / theory are "hilarious"

How about this:
ec.europa.eu/research-and-innovation/en/horizon-magazine/new-fathers-may-undergo-hormonal-neural-and-behavioural-changes

And by pasting that I am NOT saying that any hormone related depression in men is the same as PND. Of course it isn't. But I believe it is true that men's hormones are affected and change as part of the process of having a baby (and the extent to which they do depends on how involved or otherwise they are in that process after the obvious at the point of conception).

By saying that I am NOT somehow validating men's depression in this way or devaluing a woman's experience of PND (I had PND myself at least once if not twice but it was never formally recognised, but looking back I am sure that was what it was).

@bubblesbubbles11 I wasn’t laughing at your theory just your unique method of backing it up 😂

@Mamette

Just the bare-faced cheek of it *@Somethingsnappy*

Why cheeky? There is some evidence to suggest men do go through some hormonal changes during partner's pregnancy and birth. Although I agree this is on a different league to women's, it isn't so extreme as to be laughable.

[quote Mamette]@bubblesbubbles11 I wasn’t laughing at your theory just your unique method of backing it up 😂[/quote]
She was very up-front about the fact she wasn't backing it up. She was offering an opinion. No need for the hysterics emoji...

I have a colleague who was diagnosed and medicated for PND after the birth of HIS first child. He was really quite unwell.
It took a lot for him to open up and admit that to me as he was embarrassed.
There's much research around these days so YABU to say it's limited to Women.
There's many different factors and contributors but both sexes can suffer.

Oh dear. Yes I know. But the poster didn’t give any of that evidence did they? However they were happy to bring up “studies”.

Have a theory, fine.

Invoke studies- state / link to them.

@Somethingsnappy wow you live up to your name don’t you?

😂😂😂😂😂😂

Mamette

I refer you to my post of Fri 11-Feb-22 18:42:34

Many many apologies to you personally for my heinous crime of referring to some studies (which i expressly said in my first post I had not located to paste) which i did not cite at the time. Clearly your rules for posting on somewhere like Mumsnet are far too stringent for me.........................................

Mamette is not interested in this thread but just wants to have a fight......

A few years ago, I saw a consultant gynaecologist because the peri menopause triggered awful hormonal depression, overnight. He said he wasn't surprised that this had happened because I'd also suffered with awful PND after DD1 was born.

He told me that classic PND is caused by the massive hormonal changes after giving birth, which can trigger a dangerous reaction in those women severely intolerant to fluctuations in progesterone. In it's most severe form it causes post partum psychosis which requires the new Mum to be hospitalised.

So, though I do think new father's can feel depressed I think it's caused by the huge change in circumstances, and isn't hormonally induced.

Sorry no, @bubblesbubbles11, yet again you are incorrect.

[quote Mamette]@Somethingsnappy wow you live up to your name don’t you?

😂😂😂😂😂😂[/quote]
Today, yes! I have my first period after 12 months without, postpartum! I was just thinking I'm not usually so snippy.

I need wine...

Given that 'natal' means of or accompanying the act of birth, no men cannot experience post natal depression.

Depression following the birth of a child or a tragic still birth, yes, most definitely. But they do not experience the hormonal fluctuations post birth not are they (usually) the babies primary care giver.

I think the term should be protected for women. Women are at risk of psychosis following delivery because of what is happening in their body. It is an experience unique to the female body. Suggesting men are in the same boat risks passing over that reality, risking women's lives and leaving science behind. Men are not at this risk because they're not postnatal anymore than they were antenatal.

However it's not a competition and I'm very willing to acknowledge that men can be vulnerable to situational depression at this time - maybe they can create their own word.

This.

Bloody hell - baby's not babies