To say post natal depression is limited to women?

[user7643789]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-60319568

I do believe men can experience depression at any stage in life but as they cannot give birth they don't experience the hormonal and physical response.

@peachgreen

I think unless you've experienced the intensity of PND it's hard to understand why this situation is so emotive for women. IMO, both men and women can experience reactive depression after the birth of a baby, and it can be incredibly hard - but only the person who has given birth can experience the kind of depression that can be triggered by the physical and hormonal changes you get after you have a baby. It feels completely different to reactive depression (I've had both), and the treatment is, by necessity, different, and as such it needs a different term.

Exactly this

YANBU.

@Hoardasurass

Having had both PND and situational depression I can assure you that they are completely different. What men are suffering from is situational depression if they want to call it something different to help raise awareness of mens vulnerability to it after becoming a dad fine but not PND as that just confuses the matter and causes these sorts of arguments and noone is helped but plenty of people will be harmed(mostly women) by conflating them and minimizing actual PND. This will also prevent men from paying attention to it especially since many people will just assume that this is more woke bs like pregnant "men"

You've put it better than I could. I don't deny that men can get depressed by the situation but it's very different to the hormonal and physical changes that can lead to PND. It shouldn't be classed as the same illness.

@sparepantsandtoothbrush

Yes because women deserve ZERO acknowledgement of the hormone changes and physical effects of giving birth. We’re never allowed anything away from men

Are you saying a woman with depression is more important than a man with depression? Who gives a toss what it's called or caused by, depression is depression and should be treated as so

At that time, yes

Yanbu -

Men cannot have PND. Cannot believe we’re having to discuss it. Is there nothing women are allowed to not include men in?

There's a case for a term of "new parent depression" or "situational PND" which can be suffered by fathers and adoptive mothers, distinct from standard or perhaps "physiological" PND which only birth mothers undergo.

Of course birth mothers may also suffer situational depression.

Are you saying a woman with depression is more important than a man with depression? Who gives a toss what it's called or caused by, depression is depression and should be treated as so

Absolutely yes.

@bubblesbubbles11

Canaloha so sorry to disappoint.

Last time I looked I was not on commission to provide mumsnet readers with links?
and my post clearly starts "i have not done any searches"....

you are welcome to discount my thoughts as wrong if you want to - that is your choice

Well yes I will because you've assumed there's studies and crafted a post around something that isnt the case, seems odd. And no thank goodness you're not on commission!

Who gives a toss what it's called or caused by, depression is depression and should be treated as so

Except it isn't, there are separate considerations for a woman with PND, therefore the 'label' is important.

I can’t believe we’re even discussing this, of course men cannot have post natal depression because they can’t give birth. If they’re depressed because their lifestyle and routine etc has changed due to having a baby that is very different to being depressed because of hormonal changes associated with giving birth.

Men are scared of fundamental change in their life, of responsibility, of "growing up". Women are influenced by hormones, maybe traumatic birth plus all the former. Does not feel fair or genuine to mix it all up

I got quite severe depression after adopting. As a mother where there were no hormones involved, was it in fact just fear of growing up and being responsible for me? Would have saved me a course of Sertraline, counselling and time off work if I’d just realised this

@kierenthecommunity

Men are scared of fundamental change in their life, of responsibility, of "growing up". Women are influenced by hormones, maybe traumatic birth plus all the former. Does not feel fair or genuine to mix it all up

I got quite severe depression after adopting. As a mother where there were no hormones involved, was it in fact just fear of growing up and being responsible for me? Would have saved me a course of Sertraline, counselling and time off work if I’d just realised this

Yes

I actually think it's pretty ignorant to claim that PND is just down to hormones. As someone who suffered from PND and anxiety, it was not brought on simply by my hormones. It was brought on by a horrendous delivery and emergency csection during which my child almost died. It was brought on by my entire life changing completely overnight with no adequate preparation for it. It was brought on by my child having CMPA and silent reflux and crying for 8 hours a day. Everyday. It was brought on my absolutely no one helping or supporting me whatsoever, other than DH who was also struggling with all of the shit I'd gone through too. And had to go to work.

But yeh, blame the hormones.

@kierenthecommunity

Men are scared of fundamental change in their life, of responsibility, of "growing up". Women are influenced by hormones, maybe traumatic birth plus all the former. Does not feel fair or genuine to mix it all up

I got quite severe depression after adopting. As a mother where there were no hormones involved, was it in fact just fear of growing up and being responsible for me? Would have saved me a course of Sertraline, counselling and time off work if I’d just realised this

Do you feel like it diminishes your suffering if people point out you didn't have PND? I'd be on your side if you said that your experience was deeply painful, very difficult, needed to be taken seriously, and you needed fast and effective treatment for your sake and that of your child. But it wasn't PND. There's no point having a name for a condition if it's not going to have boundaries defining what's within the criteria and what's not, and the boundary that makes practical sense is that it's a diagnosis for people who experience a constellation of mental health symptoms, including low mood, having recently given birth. Even if sometimes those people might be experiencing the same things you did for the same reasons you did, and the actual birthgiving wasn't a major factor, it makes sense for them to be included in that category, and you not, because we don't yet have the ability to definitively tease out the exact reasons for a particular woman's PND but we need to recognise that having recently given birth is a particular state that is commonly associated with certain problems.

Post natal depression and depression are two different things. Post natal is down to hormones, seen as men don't give birth they do not experience Post natal depression. It would just be depression

@NightmareSlashDelightful

To be fair, the article's quite clear about differentiating the hormonal and physical triggers which are exclusive to women and the wider psychological and sociological ones, which can be experienced by both sexes.

I think it's a perfectly reasonable thing to screen for/raise awareness of, personally.

Anything that might stop people killing themselves is worth a shot IMO.

I agree, I mean I guess we can give it a different name but it's specific to becoming a parent, it's not the same as 'run of the mill depression' for want of a better phrase

FFS.

It is largely caused by post-partum hormonal changes. So how can men suffer from it?

I'm quite sure they can suffer from depression when their life changes drastically after their partner has a baby, but it cannot be postnatal depression, because they aren't the one who gave birth.

It doesn’t matter what you call it, men can definitely get depressed after the birth of their child. I’ve personally known one man who suffered this badly.
He wouldn’t care what you called it.

PND in women can and does end up in psychosis and infanticide...

@caranations

FFS.

It is largely caused by post-partum hormonal changes. So how can men suffer from it?

I'm quite sure they can suffer from depression when their life changes drastically after their partner has a baby, but it cannot be postnatal depression, because they aren't the one who gave birth.

This makes sense.

I work I'm perinatal mental health. Can men suffer from depression following the arrival of a baby? Yes. Is it PND? No. Our psychiatrist would back me up on this one. PND is driven by pregnancy and birth.

@MissyB1

It doesn’t matter what you call it, men can definitely get depressed after the birth of their child. I’ve personally known one man who suffered this badly. He wouldn’t care what you called it.

Of course it matters what you call things. I don't go round saying I've got schizophrenia because I think it'll get me taken more seriously than telling people I'm bipolar.

@SemperIdem

Yanbu -

Men cannot have PND. Cannot believe we’re having to discuss it. Is there nothing women are allowed to not include men in?

😞 It’s like we’re racing to the bottom

YANBU

Wasn’t there a story in the press recently where a surrogate mother was claiming post natal depression?