To ask the PA to stop letting my daughter fall asleep on the way home?

[justamumseekingadvice]

My daughter (6) goes on the school transport bus to school (only 8 miles away but takes around 40 minutes because of picking up the other children). I cannot drive her because I have vision problems that prevent me from driving, don’t have a partner and her dad isn’t currently involved, don’t have any local family and friends either.

Daughter has autism and she really struggles at bedtime, it can take up to 3 hours to get her to settle to sleep. She doesn’t seem tired during the day and normally does get around 10 hours a night, the problem is actually getting her to sleep in the first place but then she will sleep through until the morning.

The last couple of weeks she has been falling asleep on the school bus for around 20-30 minutes and then when it comes to bedtime she’s even more hyper and unsettled because she’s had an energy boosting nap on the way home, and honestly it’s just becoming hell - I’ve had a full on screaming breakdown tonight which I feel horrendously guilty for but it’s just so draining and exhausting having to sit with a child for hours and hours every night trying to get them to sleep - it means that I often fall asleep without dinner or a shower because it’s so late.

WIBU to ask the PA to try and keep her awake on the journey? I’m thinking to maybe send her iPad with her to play on the way home to keep her awake for the journey too?

[quote LemonViolet]Gosh that seems hugely unfair to be flagged as a safeguarding issue for using a simple medication that is off the shelf in most of the world and can be legally bought into the U.K. It’s supplementing a natural hormone, it’s not anything weird and scary. Like you haven’t got enough battles to fight already for your children.

Anyway I use melatonin myself and find it very helpful. Way better than actual sedative type sleeping aids that are over the counter in the UK.

Btw I just found this NHS page that says GPs may prescribe melatonin for just this purpose (scroll down) if anyone is fighting this battle and not wanting to source themselves quietly, here’s some ammo! www.nhs.uk/conditions/autism/autism-and-everyday-life/help-for-day-to-day-life/[/quote]
GPs cannot for children. It is not licensed for children in the UK so it requires peadiatricians to prescribe.

I know, just pointing out that is an NHS webpage advising parents of children with autism, that states “If these tips do not help, talk to a GP, who may prescribe a medicine called melatonin to help your child's sleep”.

@saraclara

1-1 is much easier to keep children awake. Our setting has 32 children and is 1-8. Which makes it very difficult .

I’ve phone my paediatrician this morning and he is calling me back on Tuesday to discuss so fingers crossed he can help 🤞

The problem I see here is that it's very normal for kids to be tired after school and want a little nap, especially if they are going on a long bus ride. I think I would hate it if someone tried to stop me from dozing off after an exhausting day at school and I were your little girl. Maybe what she needs is more running around after her nap?

Nice guidelines advise melatonin to be initiated under specialist supervision which is why GPs won't begin prescribing it although they sometimes do after agreement with the child's paediatrician.

@MistyFrequencies

Of course ask. I completely feel your pain and avoided car journeys after lunch time for at least a year, severely restricting my own life, because if my autistic boy even thinks about closing his eyes during the day he will not sleep at night. I feel your pain. Do whatever you need to, ipad included.

Before my DC was diagnosed I’d try to explain this to people. That even if I woke him after 2 mins he wouldn’t go to sleep at bedtime! No one seemed to believe me.

@GreenFingersWouldBeHandy

It sounds as though your daughter is running rings around you. Call your GP and ask about melatonin. Then have think about your bedtime schedule. 11pm? Seriously?

Do you have a ND child???? Or are you just talking rubbish without any idea what children like these go through just to be able to drop off to sleep?

@justamumseekingadvice

I’ve phone my paediatrician this morning and he is calling me back on Tuesday to discuss so fingers crossed he can help 🤞

Good luck OP!!

@Userblabla it honestly was pretty hard to listen to all those doubting me like I was some drama queen choosing to restrict my life by never driving anywhere with him after 12pm. Literally if he closed his eyes for a second we were up all night hearing verbatim reruns of paw patrol or ceaseless screaming.
So I have endless sympathy for OP and endless annoyance for those who haven't been there making her feel bad.

[quote MistyFrequencies]@Userblabla it honestly was pretty hard to listen to all those doubting me like I was some drama queen choosing to restrict my life by never driving anywhere with him after 12pm. Literally if he closed his eyes for a second we were up all night hearing verbatim reruns of paw patrol or ceaseless screaming.
So I have endless sympathy for OP and endless annoyance for those who haven't been there making her feel bad.[/quote]
I totally agree with you.

As a side note, I’ve been a nanny and a childminder and I always go to the trouble of making sure children are kept entertained and awake in the late afternoon. I don’t allow naps because it’s bad for the parents at night time. But when I’ve had my own children looked after there have been so many times that they are left to sleep in a pushchair at 5 or 6pm just because the carer can’t be bothered to talk or interact with them. It’s infuriating.

Good luck op and try the iPad idea.

@DePfeffoff That chain of causation is your opinion. It is, practically speaking, to prevent a short nap. Stating otherwise is misrepresenting the reality of the PA's actual task.

I'm not saying that no wider implications exist, nor that youre necessarily wrong about what they are. But unilaterally deciding this constitutes a reasonable adjustment is just... silly, tbh.

Gosh there are a lot of ridiculous people on this little thread!

@justamumseekingadvice - I’m so pleased for you! That’s a great step forward and Tuesday sounds really soon for a consultant ?!

I would imagine they could easily work out a plan with your GP, once you’ve reminded them of the torture of bedtimes in your house.

From one zombie mum to another

@Innocenta, the fact that you find facts inconvenient doesn't make them opinions. Unless you are accusing OP of making up her post - despite all the other parents of NT children echoing similar problems - then what we are dealing with here is straight facts. You have a particular problem arising from the fact that the local authority has already decided to arrange a 1:2 escort, whether because it's a reasonable adjustment or simply necessary.

I don't know what you're talking about, @DePfeffoff, given that I've already commented upthread about being all in favour of the low ratio, which means it's perfectly possible for the PA to do the task (keeping OP's DD awake if at all possible). You're simply inventing the idea that I have any kind of 'problem' with this; I suppose because I dare to challenge your very narrow-minded take on reasonable adjustments. As an actual disabled adult, I have a great deal of experience with them, and I stand by the reality that wanting something (whether for a disabled child or adult), doesn't necessarily make it reasonable.

As I said perfectly clearly in my first post, I do think it is entirely reasonable under these circumstances for the PA to keep OP's daughter awake!

www.biovea.net/UK/

You can buy melatonin.

I dont think its the PAs job really. They are there to supervise and to keep people safe while travelling.

@Branleuse

I dont think its the PAs job really. They are there to supervise and to keep people safe while travelling.

Yet people who have worked as PAs have told us that they would regard this as part of their job. This PA has only two children to supervise.

SEND school transport must be reasonably stress free for the child ( legal requirement) so whilst keeping a child awake isn't a requirement, interaction with the child is an expectation of the role. It is not just about keeping good order.

If the prevention of a nap is important for a parent of a disabled child to be able to manage a home then it becomes a social care issue and then any support would be provided by social care although it is more likely it would be provided in the evening. It would not be a school transport issue.

@zippityzip

https://www.biovea.net/UK/

You can buy melatonin.

If you look at the link you posted it says not to be used on children under 12 years of age.

@Cygne (cant quote you) well worth an ask then, but Its just not something i would have asked my sons taxi assistant when he used to get school transport.
I think it would be a much better solution to try and tackle how to get the child a better sleep at night, because even if the assistant kept them awake on the journey, a 3 hour bedtime saga every night is unsustainable. Its not as if its easy if hes kept awake