To ask the PA to stop letting my daughter fall asleep on the way home?

[justamumseekingadvice]

My daughter (6) goes on the school transport bus to school (only 8 miles away but takes around 40 minutes because of picking up the other children). I cannot drive her because I have vision problems that prevent me from driving, don’t have a partner and her dad isn’t currently involved, don’t have any local family and friends either.

Daughter has autism and she really struggles at bedtime, it can take up to 3 hours to get her to settle to sleep. She doesn’t seem tired during the day and normally does get around 10 hours a night, the problem is actually getting her to sleep in the first place but then she will sleep through until the morning.

The last couple of weeks she has been falling asleep on the school bus for around 20-30 minutes and then when it comes to bedtime she’s even more hyper and unsettled because she’s had an energy boosting nap on the way home, and honestly it’s just becoming hell - I’ve had a full on screaming breakdown tonight which I feel horrendously guilty for but it’s just so draining and exhausting having to sit with a child for hours and hours every night trying to get them to sleep - it means that I often fall asleep without dinner or a shower because it’s so late.

WIBU to ask the PA to try and keep her awake on the journey? I’m thinking to maybe send her iPad with her to play on the way home to keep her awake for the journey too?

It's fine to ask. I taught in a special school and some of the children had items to keep them occupied or calm in the minibuses.

However, the buses were run by the council rather than school, and the drivers and escorts varied in temperament and helpfulness, as is often the case. Some would be very supportive and really cared about the kids. Others not so much. And of course, it depends on the seating arrangement. The escort might not actually be able to reach your child to prod or talk to her to keep her awake.

But there's no harm in asking.

Of course it is fine to ask. As pp we’ve spoken to escorts asking them to keep children awake. But it isn’t easy. If you can find something to keep her awake that would be best rather than leaving it to the PA to try and think something up!

@SantaClawsServiette

I really think it depends on the PA and what the situation is on the bus. It can be really difficult to keep a small child awake in a vehicle.

Maybe a tablet of some kind would help, though I would want to make sure it wasn't going to cause trouble with the other kids.

It sounds like she's really tired after school.

I agree she probably is really tired. What is best though in that situation is that she gets an early night. Not a snatched nap then a really late night, that’s totally counterproductive and hellish for OP.

Rather then an iPad could you get her a handheld game to play with? Like a second hand Nintendo ds which you wouldn’t mind as much if it broke?
3 hours to get her to sleep must be really hard and stressful for you, I hope some of the advice on the thread helps!

YANBU at all to ask, given how much stress it causes you.
Is the PA generally good and helpful?
I know some are brilliant and will really understand and go out of their way to help, unfortunately there are others who just like to bus to be as quiet and calm as possible and won't want the hassle of keeping a child awake when they want to sleep.
My fingers are firmly crossed that you can find a solution.

Is the assistant a 1:1 or there for 10 or 20 children? Its definitely fine to ask especially if you explain about bedtime as the assistant probably thinks your DD is exhausted and benefitting from the nap. How much you can reasonably expect depends upon how many children the assistant is responsible for on the journey and exactly what she (or he) is supposed to be doing - getting wheelchair using children on and off, stopping fights, dealing with children who refuse to stay seated or whatever. It is a reasonable request but might not be possible every time if the assistant has to be keeping other children physically safe or get someone on or off the bus every few minutes.

How does your DD cope with being woken/ kept awake when she wants to sleep? The other problem is if she melts down that can be dangerous while the driver is driving and with multiple other children with additional challenges on the bus too

Its reasonable to ask though, as long as you understand it could be impossible some days.

Bedtime sounds very hard - is it impossible to eat and shower before putting her to bed? Is she a risk to herself left with the TV or ipad while you shower? Is it impossible to eat when she does because she needs help or doesn't sit still?

It’s the PA’s job to ensure the safety and well-being of all the children on the bus. Safeguarding is their main concern, not making sure one child stays awake for the whole journey, I’m afraid.

@justamumseekingadvice

My daughter (6) goes on the school transport bus to school (only 8 miles away but takes around 40 minutes because of picking up the other children). I cannot drive her because I have vision problems that prevent me from driving, don’t have a partner and her dad isn’t currently involved, don’t have any local family and friends either.

Daughter has autism and she really struggles at bedtime, it can take up to 3 hours to get her to settle to sleep. She doesn’t seem tired during the day and normally does get around 10 hours a night, the problem is actually getting her to sleep in the first place but then she will sleep through until the morning.

The last couple of weeks she has been falling asleep on the school bus for around 20-30 minutes and then when it comes to bedtime she’s even more hyper and unsettled because she’s had an energy boosting nap on the way home, and honestly it’s just becoming hell - I’ve had a full on screaming breakdown tonight which I feel horrendously guilty for but it’s just so draining and exhausting having to sit with a child for hours and hours every night trying to get them to sleep - it means that I often fall asleep without dinner or a shower because it’s so late.

WIBU to ask the PA to try and keep her awake on the journey? I’m thinking to maybe send her iPad with her to play on the way home to keep her awake for the journey too?

Yanbu How hard would it not to let them sleep?

YADNBU OP. Ignore the responses from parents of NT children, you really can’t compare it to letting an NT child have a later bedtime.

Yes I would definitely ask , if the PA only has your child to look after then she is having a very easy journey with a sleeping child. My son only needed a 5 min nap at that age and it would delay bedtime by 2 hours , he just wasn't tired .

That sounds tough, OP. You could ask but depending on the circumstances, numbers on the bus, practicalities of keeping a tired child awake, the PA might not be receptive. I'd ask before trying the IPad which seems a disaster waiting to happen. Does your DC have any insight to make suggestions themselves or a friend on the bus with whom she could play games?

Good luck.

YABU and I am a parent of three neurodiverse peers.

Do you know how difficult it is to keep a sleepy child awake?! Especially throughout a 40 minute journey. There's no harm in telling her- so YANBU in that regard. But please be sympathetic and trust that not only is it difficult to keep a sleepy child awake but also when you have to keep an eye on other children.

If this is a persistent issue with you, it may mean that you may have to move to a not so suitable school but it's much nearer for your DD or you'll have to move closer to her current schools.

@Stumpfest

I don’t drive, my son was on school transport for several years, if I needed to collect him I just got a taxi

I feel your pain. My daughter at that age was a nightmare. She is now 12 and is also autistic. It can still take her 3 hours to finally settle. We've tried lots of techniques over the years. She was never a big sleeper in the day when little and can survive on about 6 to 7 hours a night.

It sounds to me that your daughter may need that little nap after school to de-stress from the school day almostike a super downtime. I know it makes it worse for you at night and my daughter gets hyper before bed so I know how tiring it can be.

What worked for us for a while was having rough and tumble on the bed or trampoline just before her average bedtime. She needed that sensory outlet to let off some energy. Not sure what the neighbors thought of us on the trampoline at 10pm! It depends on your daughter's sensory diet is as to what might work for her. It seems counterproductive but she would get really tired then take herself to bed.
She used to watch a lot of most satisfying videos and drift off. I took six months to get her used to the Headspace sleep app which works quite well. Someone recently suggested podcasts or audio books. Also I am going to investigate medication via the paediatrician as once she is asleep she stays asleep.
I'm also a single mum and have another daughter who is suspected autism but having very bad mental health issues so it is a bit full on. Pick your battles my daughter would stay up late and I would always put her older sister to bed first so I could spend more time helping her. She spent a few years in bed with me which helped her drop off and she still shares my bed regularly. I allow it because I need to sleep!
I hope things improve for you soon.

@busyeatingbiscuits

Tricky to keep a child awake in the car, and not sure who would want to take responsibility for a small child having an iPad? School presumably won’t want to.

Quite a few of the kids at my sons special school bring in phones etc that they use on school transport, they get handed into the office at start of day and are looked after. May be worth asking the school.

This is really tricky OP as it's really difficult to keep a sleepy child awake especially in a moving vehicle, whether they are neurodiverse or neurotypical. If I determinably keep one of my kids awake when they are nodding off then they have a complete meltdown and that's not great for the driver (or other passengers). Unfortunately at 6 your daughter is still very little to have a full day at school and be expected to stay awake on a long journey home. Is there anyway you can move closer to the school? I know that's probably easier said than done though!

What do you want the assistant to do? Keep poking her to keep her awake?

Look into getting melatonin for getting her to sleep at night. All the best.

Op have you been given melatonin? It was a life changer for us (ASD son)

I had a childminder who would let my daughter sleep on the bus home every day. She didn’t interact with my child at all and it played havoc with bedtime and routines. I had to let the childminder go.

I really couldn’t have kept my child awake on a 40 minute car journey after school at that age if they were tired and that’s me and 1 child!

How many other children does the PA have in their care?

I think it’s very difficult. We have a young girl in our setting who isn’t allowed to sleep during the day however it’s a fight every day from about lunchtime to keep this child awake, they become anxious, frustrated and lash out.

Dad says if the child sleeps during the day then he has to deal with frustration, crying and the child lashing out so instead we have to deal with it which I feel is unreasonable.

Not unreasonable to ask the PA.

There are things they could try to engage the children to stop them from nodding off. It’s worth a try.

At schools I've worked at I can't imagine a child would be allowed to have a tablet to use on the bus. I've accompanied the school bus before and it could be tricky with younger children nodding off after school.I'd suggest asking for your child to sit next to the adult so they can keep an eye on them and try to keep them awake by chatting to them or encouraging them to chat with another child.

Try audible at bedtime?

There was one rule in my house growing up - you are not allowed out of bed. Brush teeth, last wee and into bed. The rule was you stayed in bed. There was no rule about going to sleep though.

My Mum was very much - you can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Meaning she couldn't physically force me to sleep. I had story book cassette tapes, I had picture books, and my teddies. She said every night she could hear me chatting away to my teddies at bedtime. Or swapping a cassette but as long as I wasn't running around and getting out of bed then she left me to it.
Could that be a new approach that might work for your DD? She can play in bed, she can read, she can listen to a storybook but she has to stay in bed.