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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask the PA to stop letting my daughter fall asleep on the way home?

172 replies

justamumseekingadvice · 09/02/2022 21:02

My daughter (6) goes on the school transport bus to school (only 8 miles away but takes around 40 minutes because of picking up the other children). I cannot drive her because I have vision problems that prevent me from driving, don’t have a partner and her dad isn’t currently involved, don’t have any local family and friends either.

Daughter has autism and she really struggles at bedtime, it can take up to 3 hours to get her to settle to sleep. She doesn’t seem tired during the day and normally does get around 10 hours a night, the problem is actually getting her to sleep in the first place but then she will sleep through until the morning.

The last couple of weeks she has been falling asleep on the school bus for around 20-30 minutes and then when it comes to bedtime she’s even more hyper and unsettled because she’s had an energy boosting nap on the way home, and honestly it’s just becoming hell - I’ve had a full on screaming breakdown tonight which I feel horrendously guilty for but it’s just so draining and exhausting having to sit with a child for hours and hours every night trying to get them to sleep - it means that I often fall asleep without dinner or a shower because it’s so late.

WIBU to ask the PA to try and keep her awake on the journey? I’m thinking to maybe send her iPad with her to play on the way home to keep her awake for the journey too?

OP posts:
ittakes2 · 09/02/2022 22:15

Have you thought about melatonin?

Monopolyiscrap · 09/02/2022 22:16

As someone who has done this job, I would be happy to talk to kids to try and keep them awake. I wouldn't make an exhausted child stay awake though by waking them up every time they dropped off. So it depends just how exhausted she is.

saraclara · 09/02/2022 22:24

@2pinkginsplease

I think it’s very difficult. We have a young girl in our setting who isn’t allowed to sleep during the day however it’s a fight every day from about lunchtime to keep this child awake, they become anxious, frustrated and lash out.

Dad says if the child sleeps during the day then he has to deal with frustration, crying and the child lashing out so instead we have to deal with it which I feel is unreasonable.

I'd rather help the parents (and have done) in cases like that. I got paid, and I got to go home at the end of the day, and have weekends and holidays. It's far, far harder for parents, for whom the task is for life. And if I could make things easier, it helped the whole family, including any siblings who might also otherwise get lashed out at. Then any brothers and sister might able to get a bit more quality time with their mum and dad AND their sib.
Monopolyiscrap · 09/02/2022 22:29

I don't think it is fair to keep a totally exhausted child awake. They are bound to be unhappy as a result.

DePfeffoff · 09/02/2022 22:40

I think you absolutely can ask for this. It's a reasonable adjustment for your daughter's disability.

DePfeffoff · 09/02/2022 22:45

Children don't necessarily fall asleep in vehicles because they're exhausted, but because of the motion of the car or bus. Therefore for a fairly short journey it's reasonably easy to keep them awake by talking to them or playing games with them. If the PA has responsibility for other children, it's reasonable to ask for a separate escort for your child.

Another possibility would be asking the council to vary the journey arrangements to make the journey time shorter. The maximum recommended journey time each way at this age is 45 minutes, and if there is any delay in the journey they must be exceeding that maximum for your child. If, for instance, she is one of the first to be dropped off in the afternoons, that would presumably help. If that isn't possible, the council should be looking seriously at splitting the route and laying on two taxis.

WaningMoon · 09/02/2022 22:47

justamumseekingadvice

The pp who said it’s a reasonable adjustment is absolutely spot on.

My son is 11 and has transport to and from his school (Sen school) and he takes his iPad and headphones on his bus , sometimes he listens to audible, sometimes he draws. He is picked up at 7.30 so it’s a long old journey for him!

MrsSkylerWhite · 09/02/2022 22:50

Is it a 1:1 situation between your daughter and the PA?

If not, sorry but YABU.

Monopolyiscrap · 09/02/2022 22:51

@DePfeffoff which is why talking or engaging with a child to keep them awake is a reasonable request. It is not reasonable to ask them to wake up a child dropping off to sleep who is exhausted.

caranations · 09/02/2022 22:53

What time do you put her to bed in the evening?

DePfeffoff · 09/02/2022 22:56

[quote Monopolyiscrap]@DePfeffoff which is why talking or engaging with a child to keep them awake is a reasonable request. It is not reasonable to ask them to wake up a child dropping off to sleep who is exhausted.[/quote]
But you are assuming the child is exhausted when that isn't necessarily the case. I get sleepy on journeys, but if I'm busy talking to someone it doesn't happen, so clearly it's not down to tiredness.

DePfeffoff · 09/02/2022 22:56

@MrsSkylerWhite

Is it a 1:1 situation between your daughter and the PA?

If not, sorry but YABU.

A reasonable adjustment on the council's part would be to employ a PA for OP's child if that doesn't happen already.
ButtockUp · 09/02/2022 22:59

If your child is on a minibus and the PA is a couple of seats away from her, how is the PA supposed to keep her awake? The OA can't just unstrap her/himself and shake your daughter.
What exactly is the transport set up?

Bagelsandbrie · 09/02/2022 23:02

Definitely send the iPad. My son is 9 and attends a complex needs school 23 miles away and gets there via a taxi and escort. It’s perfectly normal and acceptable for all the children to take iPads and gadgets on the journey. He has a bumper case and so far he’s never broken one! He also has a switch he sometimes brings with him. He downloads Tv programmes and music and plays games.

I don’t think it’s fair to ask them to keep her awake but I think if you send the iPad that will do the job by keeping her busy.

Or get an inexpensive tablet like a kindle or thereabouts just for the taxi.

Picklesandbeans · 09/02/2022 23:02

SEND teacher here- absolutely ask and get that ipad! Lots of my children do this and it works the majority if the time and ipads not damaged. lots of these answers sound like NT responses so take with a pinch of salt. My school has about 5 kids on each bus and have no problem trying to keep kids awake.

Notonthestairs · 09/02/2022 23:03

DD has a phone with Spotify and headphones in her taxi. It seems quite standard in her group - some watch cartoons. They have over an hour each way.

Number4224 · 09/02/2022 23:04

Yanbu, I would definitely ask.

MrsSkylerWhite · 09/02/2022 23:04

DePfeffoff

A reasonable adjustment on the council's part would be to employ a PA for OP's child if that doesn't happen already.“.

Councils just don’t have that kind of funding atm.

OP: can you collect?

Notonthestairs · 09/02/2022 23:06

Thinking about it DD's school is set up for children to take devices in the taxis.

Each child's hands their device to the assistant when they arrive. Assistant pops it in a in numbered bag and the bags are collected and wheeled off to reception to be stored until home time.

Covidworries · 09/02/2022 23:06

As a parent with a child with a sleep disorder. I totally understand where your coming from.
We have medication now which help so much at bed times.
Im not sure of the specifics but innour case child was tired but unable to sleep till midnight prior to meds. But neither could they be left at all so would need someone to lie next to them l, they would get anxious and frusyrated and quite often i would be hit,.screamed at hair pulled etc.

People who havent experienced this cant comprehend it at all and its not being naughty its a child in extreme distress.

I would ask transport PA. If this doesnt resolve it, I would try and get something written into EHCP

Fayekrista · 09/02/2022 23:06

This exact copy & paste was posted weeks ago???

DePfeffoff · 09/02/2022 23:10

@MrsSkylerWhite

DePfeffoff

A reasonable adjustment on the council's part would be to employ a PA for OP's child if that doesn't happen already.“.

Councils just don’t have that kind of funding atm.

OP: can you collect?

Lack of funding isn't an adequate excuse for failing to comply with the Equality Act.

As for your final question, read the original post.

gavisconismyfriend · 09/02/2022 23:13

Absolutely reasonable to ask given that the PA is there to support children with additional needs. An iPad is probably risky for a range of reasons, but perhaps the PA could engage her in playing games - spotting things out the window etc. or if snacks are allowed on the bus then something that takes effort - raisins out a tiny packet etc. that will keep her occupied

MrsSkylerWhite · 09/02/2022 23:15

I did, I was wondering about bus/train. 6 miles isn’t too far.

In theory, yes but if the Council’s funding isn’t there, it isn’t there. There are many vital services that are just not being provided now.

Flabbyflabberghasted · 09/02/2022 23:16

Hi,totally reasonable. Those who say otherwise have no idea what it’s like to have a child with SEND. Do what you need to do to make your lives easier

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