To ask the PA to stop letting my daughter fall asleep on the way home?

[justamumseekingadvice]

My daughter (6) goes on the school transport bus to school (only 8 miles away but takes around 40 minutes because of picking up the other children). I cannot drive her because I have vision problems that prevent me from driving, don’t have a partner and her dad isn’t currently involved, don’t have any local family and friends either.

Daughter has autism and she really struggles at bedtime, it can take up to 3 hours to get her to settle to sleep. She doesn’t seem tired during the day and normally does get around 10 hours a night, the problem is actually getting her to sleep in the first place but then she will sleep through until the morning.

The last couple of weeks she has been falling asleep on the school bus for around 20-30 minutes and then when it comes to bedtime she’s even more hyper and unsettled because she’s had an energy boosting nap on the way home, and honestly it’s just becoming hell - I’ve had a full on screaming breakdown tonight which I feel horrendously guilty for but it’s just so draining and exhausting having to sit with a child for hours and hours every night trying to get them to sleep - it means that I often fall asleep without dinner or a shower because it’s so late.

WIBU to ask the PA to try and keep her awake on the journey? I’m thinking to maybe send her iPad with her to play on the way home to keep her awake for the journey too?

I am sorry you have had so many unhelpful responses OP. I think AIBU is just not a good place for advice if your child is ND.
I may be wrong, but I believe you would get better support on the SEND board.
I hope you find a solution.
I cannot understand why getting melatonin is such a struggle in the UK. It seems, from my limited knowledge, that it would improve quality of life for so many parents and children.

"It sounds as though your daughter is running rings around you. Call your GP and ask about melatonin. Then have think about your bedtime schedule. 11pm? Seriously?"

Goady or just ignorant. Hard to tell.

We got melatonin for DS through a sleep clinic at hospital. Gp referred us to that. After a few sessions she prescribed it then after a few follow up checks, she signed the prescribing responsibility to camhs.

YABU I know many children of the same age who fall asleep in the car.

A nap shouldn’t disturb her sleep too much and if anything it will stop her from getting over tired and not sleeping as well.

Leave the transport issue and focus on the bedtime issue.
My DD doesn’t sleep but I struggle to get her to take melatonin.
It usually occurs naturally in the body so I do things to try and get the body to produce it naturally - like having a bedtime routine, not using screens 30mins before bed, having a dark room etc.

My child also wakes up at 6:45 and we leave the house at 8:15. It takes him a while to get ready too.

Honestly some people sound so snippy and rude. Do you all have SEN children needing transport and a PA to access education?

The PA is there for safety and supervision yes, but ffs there's no harm in asking whether they can try some things to help your child stay awake. An open window, play a game, chat, send a bag with bits and bobs to play with.

I imagine all the oh so helpful people telling the OP a nap shouldn't cause a sleep problem etc are referring to NT children.

@GreenFingersWouldBeHandy

It sounds as though your daughter is running rings around you. Call your GP and ask about melatonin. Then have think about your bedtime schedule. 11pm? Seriously?

🍪

@WonderfulYou

YABU I know many children of the same age who fall asleep in the car.

A nap shouldn’t disturb her sleep too much and if anything it will stop her from getting over tired and not sleeping as well.

Leave the transport issue and focus on the bedtime issue.
My DD doesn’t sleep but I struggle to get her to take melatonin.
It usually occurs naturally in the body so I do things to try and get the body to produce it naturally - like having a bedtime routine, not using screens 30mins before bed, having a dark room etc.

And who are these many children?

Do they have SEN? Is this relevant to what the OP is asking?

We all know most young kids fall asleep in the car. But the OP needs to avoid this so late in the day to ensure her child can get to sleep at a reasonable time, get a full nights sleep and be set for the next day.

@WonderfulYou

YABU I know many children of the same age who fall asleep in the car.

A nap shouldn’t disturb her sleep too much and if anything it will stop her from getting over tired and not sleeping as well.

Leave the transport issue and focus on the bedtime issue.
My DD doesn’t sleep but I struggle to get her to take melatonin.
It usually occurs naturally in the body so I do things to try and get the body to produce it naturally - like having a bedtime routine, not using screens 30mins before bed, having a dark room etc.

And are all this children autistic? I'm fairly sure the OP hadn't thought to try a bloody bedtime routine

It is medically proven that children with autism etc often produce less melatonin.

@saraclara

It's fine to ask. I taught in a special school and some of the children had items to keep them occupied or calm in the minibuses.

However, the buses were run by the council rather than school, and the drivers and escorts varied in temperament and helpfulness, as is often the case. Some would be very supportive and really cared about the kids. Others not so much. And of course, it depends on the seating arrangement. The escort might not actually be able to reach your child to prod or talk to her to keep her awake.

But there's no harm in asking.

Well an escort couldn't prod OPs child awake in the way you might with your own. Not unreasonable to ask but as there are other children on the transport is say it a unlikely they could try to engage with your child all the way home in order to keep them awske. Do you work? If not, could you have a nap during the day?

People who do not have a child like the the OP's should stop with the unhelpful advice.

Yanbu, i have an autistic 6yr old too who takes hours to go to sleep and any nap during the day would mean we would be up until 1am.

I was so exhausted from spending my evening trying to settle him that i decided to just stop doing it, he just isnt ready to sleep before 10 so i stopped trying the esrlier bedtime. He goes to his room at 7pm, watches tv/reads/plays quietly but the rules are unless he is ill or hurt he stays in his room. I go up at 9.45pm and read to him until 10pm then its lights out, he takes about 10/15mins to go off now instead of the hours of listening to him talk at me! Having a few hours to unwind in the evening has made a massive difference to my mental health. Im not sure if its something that would work with your daughter but you are absolutely not unreasonable to ask the PA to try and keep her awake

I totally understand the difficulties getting a child to sleep after a late nap. My ds goes to school on a bus much shorter journey than yours and no pa and thankfully doesn’t fall asleep. We’ve got bedtime going well atm but he wakes up between 3.30 and 5 every morning.
The pa is there for your child and one other so they should be making an effort to keep your child engaged and awake. It may not work but worth trying. iPad may work as well definitely ask
Good luck

My DC all got very car sick if they looked at iPads in the car. It doesn’t suit everyone.

It's really difficult to stop someone falling asleep in these circumstances. I remember from my own dec and also even as an adult trying to keep my self away when my eyes start to go. I pad seems like loads of potential problems including motion sickness, loss, other dc kicking off as they want one. Not sure what the answer is but certainly ask if they can try

@MrsSkylerWhite

DePfeffoff

A reasonable adjustment on the council's part would be to employ a PA for OP's child if that doesn't happen already.“.

Councils just don’t have that kind of funding atm.

OP: can you collect?

It says in the op that the poster has vision probs so can’t drive and it’s 8 miles away, not sure if there’s public transport but having an autistic child myself taking them on busy public transport after a day at school would be an absolute nightmare. La need to look at the bigger picture although they often don’t. If the alternative is a decline in the op’s mental health to the point where her child goes into care then paying for 1-1 pa on the bus to prevent this is an absolute bargain in money terms. The incidence of Sen children going into care I when parents can no longer cope is much higher than for nt children so I’m not being overly dramatic

@GreenFingersWouldBeHandy

It sounds as though your daughter is running rings around you. Call your GP and ask about melatonin. Then have think about your bedtime schedule. 11pm? Seriously?

@GreenFingersWouldBeHandy

Clearly you've never been responsible for a child with autism, so why just post to put the boot in? FFS.

I'm a PA and I would try and keep a child awake if I was asked to but I'm in a taxi not a bus and the most children I've had to look after was 3. An I pad might work though so it's worth a try.

I work with autistic children. Yes that is definitely a very reasonable request. Ask the pa to sit next to your child if that's possible and have books in her bag to help. She could also try singing to her if she's working with her she really shouldn't mind doing that. Also the driver could play music to sing along to. Good luck

Have you asked the GP to prescribe melatonin, since she takes 3 hours to sleep even without this nap

At the end of the day they are not doing you a favour they are employed to provide a service to the children using the transport.

It isn't unreasonable to ask if they can help you to help the child by trying to keep them awake to ensure they get a decent night sleep after a long day at school.

A bit of a a distraction to snap them out of feeling sleepy might be all it needs. Nobody would expect them to be constantly prodding children and forcing them to keep their eyes open, but just to try a few things to keep them going on the journey.

Like a PP I buy melatonin from Biovea, they ship from outside the U.K. - in other countries melatonin is over the counter, not prescription only. Absolutely legal and legit.

A PA is expected to interact with children on send transport. It is part of the role. It is completely reasonable to say that you would prefer for your daughter not to nap and although you understand she might still do it and x, y, z might help in stopping it.

@LemonViolet

Like a PP I buy melatonin from Biovea, they ship from outside the U.K. - in other countries melatonin is over the counter, not prescription only. Absolutely legal and legit.

It flags as a safeguarding issue if schools/social care get wind of it.