Page 8 | AIBU to feel overwhelmed by non-binary, cancel culture, and woke society?

MuchuseasaChocolateTeapot · 08/02/2022 23:22

My daughter (18 and as PC as you can get) and I were watching the remake of the Rocky Horror Show a while ago (DO NOT WATCH IT, IT’S DREADFUL). It even made her head spin trying to figure out Laverne Cox (transgender male to female) playing bi-sexual Frank n’ Furter whilst dressed as a transsexual . We gave up in the end!

DdraigGoch · 08/02/2022 23:22

@Hugoslavia

I really feel like most of this is whipped up a distorted by the tabloids. In real life, the situation is very different and largely unchanged.

I can't see that the tabloids have been doing much. The Sun (which you'd think would be all over this) has been almost silent.

The broadsheets have been busy though.

Smallkeys · 08/02/2022 23:23

I agree it is becoming a religion and I don’t like this mandatory pronoun at work thing. So basically somebody else’s belief which is perfectly right and proper for them to have is now expected to be taken on by everyone. I don’t know it just seems to me it’s something else to fight about

QueenofDestruction · 08/02/2022 23:23

I just say I refuse to use language that classifies humans into arbitrary categories and find it segregating and elitist and therefore only use gender neutral pronouns for everyone.

Quincythequince · 08/02/2022 23:25

People don’t just get to change the meaning of a word, and expect other people just to go along with it.

I massively object to the (non)definition of woman being used to say anybody can be a woman.

Woman is not a feeling, it is not a costume, it is not something anybody can identify in and out of Willy nilly.

Crazy that people even think this is the case. Bet all these heavily subjugated woman around the world would love to be able to identify out of it, or perhaps all these murdered little girls would because they were born the ‘wrong’ sex - not assigned the wrong gender.

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 08/02/2022 23:26

Ooops sorry milkyaqua, it wasn’t you who said, of second-wave feminism, that there was intense discussion about whether lesbianism was compatible with feminism.

SarahandQuack, were you active in the 1970s? If so, where were you having these discussions, who with? What groups were debating this? I never heard anyone expressing this view.

MuchuseasaChocolateTeapot · 08/02/2022 23:27

Sorry meant transvestite! Was singing the sing in my head!

EeeICouldRipATissue · 08/02/2022 23:27

I refuse to use language that classifies humans into arbitrary categories and find it segregating and elitist and therefore only use gender neutral pronouns for everyone
How does that even work?
Everyone, really?
So you never address anyone as say she or he?!
What do you use then?
I'd find you a bit baffling or odd to be honest if you refused to call me she and insisted I was neutral instead (I'm not trans)

Enough4me · 08/02/2022 23:28

Not all teens want or agree with this ideology. My DD and I get angry and also laugh about it, males cannot imagine their male bodies and appendages to be female however hard they try.

mummykel16 · 08/02/2022 23:28

@FordSiesta

I've got to the stage where I feel quite apprehensive about the future. It just feels like there will be no 'men' or 'women' or 'boys' and 'girls' and everyone will need to conform to various gender identities and have to remember all the different ways people identify so as not to accidently offend anyone. I'm supportive of transgender people and understand people changing from male to female or vice versa but now there's all this non-binary stuff it's getting confusing.

All these things going on in this 'woke society' and if you aren't seen as wanting to conform with all this new stuff then the 'cancel culture' comes at you.

I just feel like I would be happy if there wasn't so much pressure placed on people to get pronouns correct if for millions of years we've used he/him and she/her and now we need to say they/them when we were taught in school they/them was plural.

I don't have kids yet but I do wonder if I did what the world would be like for them growing up.

AIBU for wanting to just continue with two genders?

Yanbu

A few are getting to dictate how the rest live and talk and act, sounds familiar

housemaus · 08/02/2022 23:28

If you find it tricky, why not just approach on a person by person basis - i.e. when it becomes relevant to you to use someone's pronouns in a way which you find confusing, you tackle it individually, rather than getting overwhelmed by people you'll never meet?

i.e. If I met you, and your name was Tyler, and I kept referring to you as Taylor - you could politely ask me not to refer to you as Taylor, as that isn't your name. If I messed it up once or twice, you'd probably get it - in my head, I've got you down as a Taylor, so it might take a few goes to get right. But generally, you'll appreciate the effort, and I'm just being polite to you personally - so there's no big thing to get your head round, just tackling it as it comes up.

Similarly, if you meet someone called Alex and refer to them as 'she' in conversation with someone else you're all hanging out with - "Oh yes, Alex just said she felt the same!", and Alex said, "Oh, actually, I prefer they/them pronouns" - the simplest, easiest thing to do would be to go, "Ah my apologies - Alex said they felt the same..." and carry on chatting. Sure, you might slip up occasionally - you're human - but Alex will appreciate the effort. There's no big learning curve - if you meet someone who is non-binary, make an effort to refer to them as they'd like to be referred to. If you slip up, that's okay. As long as you're trying - and not deliberately referring to someone in a way they've said they don't like, just as you wouldn't refer to someone by the wrong name on purpose - that's all good.

That way you only need to tackle it if you encounter someone non-binary who asks you to use specific pronouns, and you won't get confused

Quincythequince · 08/02/2022 23:29

And to all these people who agree with the notion of gender identity and being able to declare one’s gender as they fee, how do you define woman?

Please do so without using the word woman in the response (I.e. I feel like a woman 🙄) or using antiquated gender stereotypes (I.e. I like to wear makeup and have long hair).

Also, if trans women are women, is the reverse true? And If not, why not?

user1481840227 · 08/02/2022 23:31

[quote SarahAndQuack]@StScholastica - yes, sorry, I thought it was obvious!

I'm a lesbian; I am not even a tiny bit trying to suggest it's ok to dismiss lesbians as women trying to be men, or say homosexuality is too confusing to accept. But that's the sort of thing people have said (and do say) to legitimise homophobia.

Likewise, speaking out against 'woke society' just sounds like someone trying to excuse being racist.[/quote]
The new thing is people acting confused about heterosexuality. People playing dumb saying they can't understand why a person would automatically rule out a huge amount of people based on what's between their legs. Heterosexuality isn't a choice just like homosexuality isn't a choice or bisexuality isn't a choice.

We are also told that sexuality is a spectrum,.....gender is a spectrum, no one is 100% gay or 100% straight, no one can say they are 100% woman...

It's ridiculous!! and it's bisexual people who are complaining about bisexuality erasure while then erasing the idea of being straight or gay.

Obviously it's not all bisexual people, but they are the ones who are doing it.

As a straight female I absolutely resent other people telling me I'm not 100% straight and trying to label me as 'cis' or put me on some gender spectrum and assign me a spot on it.

It seems like for some their own labels are so incredibly important for themselves yet they think they are allowed to go around labelling others too even if the other person doesn't want that label.

It's so obviously hypocritical which is why many of the aspects of 'woke' society are just plain ridiculous and infuriating!!

Quincythequince · 08/02/2022 23:31

@housemaus

If you find it tricky, why not just approach on a person by person basis - i.e. when it becomes relevant to you to use someone's pronouns in a way which you find confusing, you tackle it individually, rather than getting overwhelmed by people you'll never meet?

i.e. If I met you, and your name was Tyler, and I kept referring to you as Taylor - you could politely ask me not to refer to you as Taylor, as that isn't your name. If I messed it up once or twice, you'd probably get it - in my head, I've got you down as a Taylor, so it might take a few goes to get right. But generally, you'll appreciate the effort, and I'm just being polite to you personally - so there's no big thing to get your head round, just tackling it as it comes up.

Similarly, if you meet someone called Alex and refer to them as 'she' in conversation with someone else you're all hanging out with - "Oh yes, Alex just said she felt the same!", and Alex said, "Oh, actually, I prefer they/them pronouns" - the simplest, easiest thing to do would be to go, "Ah my apologies - Alex said they felt the same..." and carry on chatting. Sure, you might slip up occasionally - you're human - but Alex will appreciate the effort. There's no big learning curve - if you meet someone who is non-binary, make an effort to refer to them as they'd like to be referred to. If you slip up, that's okay. As long as you're trying - and not deliberately referring to someone in a way they've said they don't like, just as you wouldn't refer to someone by the wrong name on purpose - that's all good.

That way you only need to tackle it if you encounter someone non-binary who asks you to use specific pronouns, and you won't get confused

I am still yet to hear a clear answer as to what non-binary actually is.

Nobody is able to describe this.

Gender and gender stereotypes are a pile of shot!

Sex is not observed at birth, it is determined at conception.

Gender is a deeply sexist concept!

Deeply.

EeeICouldRipATissue · 08/02/2022 23:32

What @hausmaus said.
Nothing wrong with not realising or making mistakes even a few times, but say deliberately calling someone the wrong name etc repeatedly would just make you a dick.

Quincythequince · 08/02/2022 23:33

@EeeICouldRipATissue

What *@hausmaus* said. Nothing wrong with not realising or making mistakes even a few times, but say deliberately calling someone the wrong name etc repeatedly would just make you a dick.

Don’t be so disingenuous.

A name is a proper noun!

Completely different to the use of pronouns which are based on sex class.

EeeICouldRipATissue · 08/02/2022 23:37

Don’t be so disingenuous
A name is a proper noun!
Completely different to the use of pronouns which are based on sex class

Ok, fair enough, point taken.
What about poster upthread though who says calls everyone by neutral pronouns?!
Don't you think that's a little weird, not to mention dick like behaviour if they were to know fine well that the person they were referring to didn't want neutral pronouns?!

Smallkeys · 08/02/2022 23:38

I thought non binary was when you were born in the wrong body but I think it’s just either you reject the standard male and female stereotype or you really don’t feel you are either. With the latter in nit sure how that would feel maybe someone can say . Equally i might be totally wrong. I don’t mind people
Doing their thing but I don’t want my identifying as female and all the things tnbst brings with it to be shunted to the side. We haven’t even got equal rights with men yet never mind competing in a new arena

Troubleinpergatory · 08/02/2022 23:39

YANBU, total load of bollocks.

Be careful though OP because mumsnet likes to ban people for having this viewpoint and having the gusto to post about it.

DdraigGoch · 08/02/2022 23:41

My daughter’s friend is trans (girl to boy) and was banging on in the car how disgusting it is that toilets in school are single sex and should all be unisex…
Firstly they go to a girls’ school
Ok, that's beyond parody. The toilets may as well be unisex on the basis that all pupils can use all toilets.

Quincythequince · 08/02/2022 23:41

@EeeICouldRipATissue

Don’t be so disingenuous A name is a proper noun! Completely different to the use of pronouns which are based on sex class

Ok, fair enough, point taken.
What about poster upthread though who says calls everyone by neutral pronouns?!
Don't you think that's a little weird, not to mention dick like behaviour if they were to know fine well that the person they were referring to didn't want neutral pronouns?!

I haven’t called anyone a dick.

The other poster you mention isn’t expecting others to collude with her own beliefs (will go back and read post again though) she just chooses not to call women she, and men he.

Strange indeed, but not the same as someone else insisting that they are referred to as someone of the opposite sex.

Quincythequince · 08/02/2022 23:42

And a neutral pronoun isn’t inaccurate, but it’s weird.

‘I go by they/them’ 🙄 - sure ok, Roger, or Sally or whatever.

Quincythequince · 08/02/2022 23:43

@Smallkeys

I thought non binary was when you were born in the wrong body but I think it’s just either you reject the standard male and female stereotype or you really don’t feel you are either. With the latter in nit sure how that would feel maybe someone can say . Equally i might be totally wrong. I don’t mind people Doing their thing but I don’t want my identifying as female and all the things tnbst brings with it to be shunted to the side. We haven’t even got equal rights with men yet never mind competing in a new arena

Nobody is born into the wrong body. Nobody!

Smallkeys · 08/02/2022 23:45

Quincy What do you mean of course they are that’s why there are sex changes nobody would go through that trauma if they didn’t feel they had the wrongs bits or am I missing something ?

AllOfUsAreDead · 08/02/2022 23:45

Just ignore it all and eventually the madness will go away. Something new will be trending eventually.