AIBU to feel overwhelmed by non-binary, cancel culture, and woke society?

[FordSiesta]

I've got to the stage where I feel quite apprehensive about the future. It just feels like there will be no 'men' or 'women' or 'boys' and 'girls' and everyone will need to conform to various gender identities and have to remember all the different ways people identify so as not to accidently offend anyone. I'm supportive of transgender people and understand people changing from male to female or vice versa but now there's all this non-binary stuff it's getting confusing.

All these things going on in this 'woke society' and if you aren't seen as wanting to conform with all this new stuff then the 'cancel culture' comes at you.

I just feel like I would be happy if there wasn't so much pressure placed on people to get pronouns correct if for millions of years we've used he/him and she/her and now we need to say they/them when we were taught in school they/them was plural.

I don't have kids yet but I do wonder if I did what the world would be like for them growing up.

AIBU for wanting to just continue with two genders?

I'm torn on this. I hear what you are saying and I also hate using a plural pronoun for an individual but I know two young people (in their 20s) who now identify as a different gender to their birth gender. It's been a tough road for both of them and I want to respect their choice. That being said it just feels wrong to me and I wonder if they will still feel the same way in 10 years time.

By all means continue with two genders but you can’t dictate what someone wants to be referred to so we’re all in this together.
I don’t mind having to call someone ‘they’ or someone who clearly looks like a ‘he’, a ‘she’ instead. If I make a mistake, I hope they can forgive if I apologise.

I think it’ll stop being a big deal in the near future, however anyone feels about it now.

just feels like there will be no 'men' or 'women' or 'boys' and 'girls' and everyone will need to conform to various gender identities
What a load of bloody rubbish, sorry.
You're not going to stop being you just because others identify differently to yourself!
Oh and YABU
As for not accidentally offend anyone comment, you sound like those from the 70s and 80s who were like '' PC gawn mad! '' can't say anything anymore! When what they were really taking the huff with was not feeling able to say racist shit anymore.

@thinkingaboutLangCleg

Lesbian rights were a major issue for second wave feminism. There was intense discussion over whether lesbianism was compatible with feminism.

What???? Where did you get that from, milkyaqua? I was an active and committed feminist throughout the glorious second wave, when Women’s Liberation made so many gains. In my five decades as a feminist, I have had many discussions about sexual politics and met and campaigned with a lot of women, both lesbians and heterosexuals.

Not once have I ever heard a woman suggest that lesbianism was incompatible with feminism. Never. Let alone ‘intense discussion’. How could it be? Both are about women caring for women. Both are woman-centred. The argument I did hear was whether heterosexual women could commit themselves to feminism! Not all lesbians I know are political, but none are antifeminist.

She's quoting me.

I am simply referring to very well-known issues, such as Betty Friedan characterising lesbians as a 'menace'.

What???? Where did you get that from, milkyaqua?

That wasn't me, I was responding to that poster...

@thinkingaboutLangCleg

Lesbian rights were a major issue for second wave feminism. There was intense discussion over whether lesbianism was compatible with feminism.

What???? Where did you get that from, milkyaqua? I was an active and committed feminist throughout the glorious second wave, when Women’s Liberation made so many gains. In my five decades as a feminist, I have had many discussions about sexual politics and met and campaigned with a lot of women, both lesbians and heterosexuals.

Not once have I ever heard a woman suggest that lesbianism was incompatible with feminism. Never. Let alone ‘intense discussion’. How could it be? Both are about women caring for women. Both are woman-centred. The argument I did hear was whether heterosexual women could commit themselves to feminism! Not all lesbians I know are political, but none are antifeminist.

PS: Amen to that, sister.

All this does matter in Scotland where there's the hate crime bill coming - 1984 and the Thought Police ! Do not dare to (even accidentally) mis gender someone.

I'm another objecting to the term cis.

It's not a massive ask to remember how someone identifies is it? No more than remembering anything else fundamental about them. And as for woke cancel culture, stop reading the Daily Mail

It’s ok to feel overwhelmed but educating yourself is important

Pedant’s corner…the words ‘sex’ & ‘gender’ have different meanings & cannot be used interchangeably.

The use of gender to mean sex is a recent phenomenon & has become a form of double speak whilst some people are in thrall of a cult.

It is important to use to be clear about when we mean we when we refer to biological sex & when we mean gender to refer to cultural norms & roles.

I watch over my tomboy niece & keep silent fingers crossed that she just keeps going as she is & does not come across the pronoun/identification bingo that is rife at the moment. She’s a girl doing her own thing & that is plenty enough in every way.

I do wonder how we have come so far along this crazy path. When did this ‘Pandora’s box’ get prised open?

It is stressful. It would be nice to be able to ignore it, but it impinges. It impinges on my kids, and in my workplace. And then I think it is also impinging politically in ways that may have long term bad consequences.

If other people want to have odd beliefs it's no skin off my nose, I have some lovely friends with very odd beliefs, but this stuff is intellectually incoherent and empirically unsupported, so I resent being under pressure to pay lip service to it myself, or to support other people in what I believe to be deeply unhealthy actions.

My only hope at the moment is that I think we may be somewhat at the peak, and some of it is beginning to fall apart. So perahps we are at the beginning of the end.

I'm hoping it's just a fad, and by the time my toddlers are teens, we'll be back to solely women competing in women's sports/ no men identifying as female in women's prisons, etc.

Dh and I were just discussing what pronouns to put at the end of our email sigs once it’s mandatory we can’t decide between:
He/her She/Him They/Them - Everything to Everyone Or One/We (#Royalpretensionsareus) 🙈🙈😆

@Scianel

educating yourself is important

I did, and decided it was a load of made up wank.

Me too!

@Momicrone

Anon123, you do realise that your children will eventually grow up to make their own decisions about their lives, bodies, sexuality, gender?

"Grow up" being a key term here. With adulthood one can better understand the consequences of ones actions. Under 18s should not be given life-altering drugs (and in some cases surgery) which is not medically justified.

@ufucoffee

I'm not overwhelmed, just irritated. I reserve the right to speak the truth and say that men cannot become women and women cannot become men.

This. A thousand times this!

@SaySomethingMan

By all means continue with two genders but you can’t dictate what someone wants to be referred to so we’re all in this together. I don’t mind having to call someone ‘they’ or someone who clearly looks like a ‘he’, a ‘she’ instead. If I make a mistake, I hope they can forgive if I apologise.

I think it’ll stop being a big deal in the near future, however anyone feels about it now.

Why though? Why should anyone get to tell everyone that the whole pronoun system has changed? They now have cat gender and so we're supposed to use specialized odd pronouns. Because if the principle is each person gets to decide wankers like that count too.

Pronouns were never meant to validate people's individual authenticity. They are there to make speech a bit more efficient, that's all.

It's not like I give a fuck how anyone else wants to dress or what they want to call themselves, its that they then attempt to co-opt the world around them into LARPing with them.
No I don't want to go along with your made up gender religion thanks. My Christian friends don't demand that of me, why should you?

@FordSiesta

I've got to the stage where I feel quite apprehensive about the future. It just feels like there will be no 'men' or 'women' or 'boys' and 'girls' and everyone will need to conform to various gender identities and have to remember all the different ways people identify so as not to accidently offend anyone. I'm supportive of transgender people and understand people changing from male to female or vice versa but now there's all this non-binary stuff it's getting confusing.

All these things going on in this 'woke society' and if you aren't seen as wanting to conform with all this new stuff then the 'cancel culture' comes at you.

I just feel like I would be happy if there wasn't so much pressure placed on people to get pronouns correct if for millions of years we've used he/him and she/her and now we need to say they/them when we were taught in school they/them was plural.

I don't have kids yet but I do wonder if I did what the world would be like for them growing up.

AIBU for wanting to just continue with two genders?

Every generation has gone through something like this - a belief that the world has made a grave mistake and that we're all going the hell in a handcart and why can't it go back to how it should be (well for the last 150 years at least). Humanity survives just fine, and the youngsters look back at marvel at the strange way people used to live.

My daughter’s friend is trans (girl to boy) and was banging on in the car how disgusting it is that toilets in school are single sex and should all be unisex…
Firstly they go to a girls’ school so the only male toilets are staff but he thought they should make separate provision for him (not the disabled toilet because he didn’t want to be labelled as disabled for his gender change) and didn’t think he should have to use the ladies. Frankly if they just changed the nameplate from ladies to toilet that would make it unisex, unless he actually wants a urinal?
Secondly, I pointed out that I went to a mixed school all through growing up and the girls’ loo was a sanctuary from boys and teachers etc. Somewhere to talk about periods and borrow tampons, chat about boys (or girls), or to generally have a cry in semi privacy. I would have been horrified if boys had been allowed in, for sure they would have been peering over the top and underneath the cubicles. And anyway the boys loo stank of wee! It was our safe space at school.

I am so impressed with the open minded tolerance of my teenagers, but for a generation who don’t like labels they have produced a hell of a lot more of them!

Not overwhelmed. Astonished and appalled maybe.
Have found a new feminist energy. Already talking to school, MP, Dept Ed etc.

Women's and girls rights, speech/language are not up for negotiation. Encouraging emotional and physical confusion of children and teens is unacceptable

There is no scientific basis for GI.

@Scianel

are prepared to admit your ignorance and apologise if you get something wrong

No. I'm not ignorant, I'm not going to validate anyone's gender woo and I'm not going to grovel.

Absolutely this.

@SaySomethingMan

By all means continue with two genders but you can’t dictate what someone wants to be referred to so we’re all in this together. I don’t mind having to call someone ‘they’ or someone who clearly looks like a ‘he’, a ‘she’ instead. If I make a mistake, I hope they can forgive if I apologise.

I think it’ll stop being a big deal in the near future, however anyone feels about it now.

No, you can’t dictate what somebody wants to refer to.

But you clearly don’t have to refer to a male as she if you don’t want to.

I am deeply gender critical - it’s a pile of shit.

Wear what you like, change your name to one typically associated with the opposite sex if you like, shag who you want (consenting adult that is), but I won’t collude in somebody’s dysphoria just to be polite, nor should anybody else have to either.

@flintstonewall

I'm a female (biological female, born female or whatever you want to call it), from a marginalised group myself. Two marginalised groups actually. I used to be a sex worker, and I have alopecia.

I am also a bit confused with all the pronouns and stuff and just try to be kind and respectful to everyone I meet. I am a bit baffled though.

My main concern though, is that people will keep voting in the Tories and enable them to continue with the policies which cause poverty and suffering - mainly to WOMEN, because of "other parties don't know what a woman is" .. meanwhile the Tories throw single parents, single parent students, older unemployed women, disabled women, and women carers under a bus!!

Hence why many people are upset that the other parties have pushed them into supporting the "least worst option".