AIBU to think Brits don't care about state involvement in murders in NI?

[Somatronic]

More evidence of state collusion in loyalist murders of Catholics/nationalists in Northern Ireland. This time it's the RUC.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/feb/08/evidence-police-in-belfast-colluded-with-loyalists-in-the-troubles-report-finds

AIBU to think that British people don't care that their army and British police forces were involved in the murder of civilians in Northern Ireland? That there's a strange attitude that only the IRA or republican actions were wrong?

I just don't see how we could change any of our values if the majority of the whole country (NI & ROI combined) disagreed, it would cease to be a democracy in that case

Let's just say majority led politics, ignoring the views and values of a sizeable minority has long been problematic in NI. There's plenty of historical precedent here, let's try not to repeat our mistakes

I think it's the fundamental nature of the country. A new constitution, a new flag, anthem, maybe a new country name. Possibly even trying to join the commonwealth.

Even raising these as possibilities in ROI sounds insane. Ain't nobody signing up for any of that.

I think what would happen is this:

1. Border poll in NI says majority want UI;
2. Talks begin on how this can be achieved including a constitutional committee;
3. Border poll takes place in Ireland with a question incorporating the results of the negotiations in (2).
4. Poll fails, back to negotiations, etc.

@TheKeatingFive

I think it's the fundamental nature of the country. A new constitution, a new flag, anthem, maybe a new country name. Possibly even trying to join the commonwealth.

Even raising these as possibilities in ROI sounds insane. Ain't nobody signing up for any of that.

Yeah, it does actually

@TheKeatingFive

I think it's the fundamental nature of the country. A new constitution, a new flag, anthem, maybe a new country name. Possibly even trying to join the commonwealth.

Even raising these as possibilities in ROI sounds insane. Ain't nobody signing up for any of that.

Yep, but I don't think the Unionists are going to be happy otherwise. There may be some room for compromise on some issues, but if there is a UI, it will not be something recognisable today. In my opinion.

I think so few English people have been to Northern Ireland, it seems like a made up place.

I'm interested in this stuff, I care about it, I've tried to find out about it but it still seems a bit unreal. A bit like all of colonial history really. Britain was responsible for a huge mass of injustices (as well as a few beneficial actions) and it's hard to know quite what to feel about it. Maybe we should approach it more like the Germans and the Nazi past, with a lot more seriousness?

@GrendelsGrandma

I think so few English people have been to Northern Ireland, it seems like a made up place.

I'm interested in this stuff, I care about it, I've tried to find out about it but it still seems a bit unreal. A bit like all of colonial history really. Britain was responsible for a huge mass of injustices (as well as a few beneficial actions) and it's hard to know quite what to feel about it. Maybe we should approach it more like the Germans and the Nazi past, with a lot more seriousness?

Ah if you've never been you should come over! For all our troubled history we sure do know how to welcome visitors and have the craic!

@PleasantBirthday

I think it's the fundamental nature of the country. A new constitution, a new flag, anthem, maybe a new country name. Possibly even trying to join the commonwealth.

Ireland join the commonwealth???? Don't be ridiculous!!!!

Ireland join the commonwealth????
Don't be ridiculous!!!!

I'm not proposing it, I'm saying that I've seen it proposed as one of the changes that unionists might like to see if there were to be a united Ireland. As I've said, I would be unlikely, personally, to vote in favour of a UI given the kinds of changes unionists would require.

AIBU to think that British people...

YABU for assuming we all think alike. We don't.

It is a difficult issue. Probably current most people in Northern Ireland do not want to join a united ireland but that may not always remain the case.

I am not British but I do not really care. The atrocities committed by terrorists are so horrendous that it cancels out my sympathy on the whole. Also I have a number of dear Catholic friends from NI who confirmed that they themselves felt terrorised by the IRA and left NI to avoid being virtually gang pressed into the organisation. They mentioned it was so insidious that it started at a young age with innocent seeming scout activities. And far from some noble cause; it often was nothing more than a criminal protection racket. It annoys me how romanticised the whole shit show was in the States where huge sums were collected.

@GrendelsGrandma

I think so few English people have been to Northern Ireland, it seems like a made up place.

I'm interested in this stuff, I care about it, I've tried to find out about it but it still seems a bit unreal. A bit like all of colonial history really. Britain was responsible for a huge mass of injustices (as well as a few beneficial actions) and it's hard to know quite what to feel about it. Maybe we should approach it more like the Germans and the Nazi past, with a lot more seriousness?

We could learn a lot from Germany, but unfortunately massive xenophobia on a national scale makes that seem very unlikely to happen.

@NannyKrampus

I am not British but I do not really care. The atrocities committed by terrorists are so horrendous that it cancels out my sympathy on the whole. Also I have a number of dear Catholic friends from NI who confirmed that they themselves felt terrorised by the IRA and left NI to avoid being virtually gang pressed into the organisation. They mentioned it was so insidious that it started at a young age with innocent seeming scout activities. And far from some noble cause; it often was nothing more than a criminal protection racket. It annoys me how romanticised the whole shit show was in the States where huge sums were collected.

So the atrocities committed by one side makes every single catholic guilty, and therefore you don't care that completely innocent people were murdered with the collusion of the British state? Because they were catholic and the IRA were catholic? Do you understand that we are discussing the murder of INNOCENT people, not terrorists? Have you even read what you are commenting on?

@NannyKrampus

I am not British but I do not really care. The atrocities committed by terrorists are so horrendous that it cancels out my sympathy on the whole. Also I have a number of dear Catholic friends from NI who confirmed that they themselves felt terrorised by the IRA and left NI to avoid being virtually gang pressed into the organisation. They mentioned it was so insidious that it started at a young age with innocent seeming scout activities. And far from some noble cause; it often was nothing more than a criminal protection racket. It annoys me how romanticised the whole shit show was in the States where huge sums were collected.

So because of the IRA you have no sympathy for teenagers, mothers, fathers being murdered by the state. Innocent people who happen to be catholics

Because? Because what?

Jesus Christ. I'm embarrassed for you

@NannyKrampus

I am not British but I do not really care. The atrocities committed by terrorists are so horrendous that it cancels out my sympathy on the whole. Also I have a number of dear Catholic friends from NI who confirmed that they themselves felt terrorised by the IRA and left NI to avoid being virtually gang pressed into the organisation. They mentioned it was so insidious that it started at a young age with innocent seeming scout activities. And far from some noble cause; it often was nothing more than a criminal protection racket. It annoys me how romanticised the whole shit show was in the States where huge sums were collected.

Huh? Are you that easily directed? So what. You know one person (maybe two) who has ‘told’ you they were under pressure to join the IRA but because of their strength against terrorist pressure they stepped away 😂 Bless you and your informed opinion.

Do you know who exactly are these terrorists you are so done with?

I live in NI, from a unionist background although from a mixed area, in a mixed relationship and went to an integrated school and only go to church for weddings and funerals so can't claim to represent the unionist or Protestant community.

I think we do need to move on as a nation, and that process has started but the same old people keep dragging us back. The government should do their investigations, make their apologies, pay their dues and get it wrapped up so we can look forward. For those saying 'but the IRA' - you cannot seriously think the government should be held accountable to the same standards as a terrorist organisation?

Growing up I was told that a unites Ireland was something to fear, we'd be treated as second class citizens and so on. As an adult I realise that's just total nonsense, no doubt people believed it at the time because of the segregation that existed then but this is 2022. And when I see Britain handing other nations their independence back I think it is truly bizarre that they keep a hold on Northern Ireland.

I hate that people act like we're all a bunch of dickheads who need either the UK or ROI to take responsibility for us. The majority of us are just normal people who grew up in a nation divided by civil war and the responsibility for that rests at the feet of the British government.

@PleasantBirthday

I think it's the fundamental nature of the country. A new constitution, a new flag, anthem, maybe a new country name. Possibly even trying to join the commonwealth.

Oh yea we down here in the south are REALLY up for MORE new flags and anthems etc. Nah thanks, enough of our culture and history has been wiped out. As for the 'common wealth'.....😂😂😂😂 IRA membership figures would rocket

I spent quite a bit of time in NI. Taking the communal taxis up and down Falls Road to stay with former MIL every bloody day. And no, I wasn't talking about one or two people but quite wide ex Belfast community who are Catholic. I really do not care if people want to dismiss me and call me naive or easily directed. I have witnessed and seen far more than I wish to remember and it formed my standpoint.

I don't think the English care, or care to find out. I think English people find NI 'other', both Loyalist and Republican. I actually think a lot of English people would be taking a 50:50 bet about which was which. My generation (mid 40s) saw the violence, thought it was an intractable political problem, breathed a sigh of relief at the GFA, and then turned away. I'm not saying that's right, but it's how it is. The English don't care who bombed who, or who got shot as the state tried to sort it out. And if they care, it's at the level of a football chant: "No surrender to the IRA". But my guess is that most English people under 50 can't work out why NI Loyalists are even a thing.

@Louisianagumbo the 'loyalist' paramilitary groups were formed to maintain the protestant ascendency over the Catholic population in the same way that the ku klux klan was formed to terrorise black people in the southern United States. The KKK was formed by Scots Irish people who moved from Northern Ireland to the United States giving them more scope for brutalising Catholic, Black and Jewish people. The burning of the cross as a rallying point and instrument of intimidation has a direct line of history from Scotland, Northern Ireland to Louisiana! You knew that didn't you?

@MorningStarling

People on all sides did things they shouldn't have. Ultimately the army and police response was to the actions of the paramilitary groups. Sometimes they did bad things, but so did the paramilitary groups. If there had been no IRA killing or bombing, no Loyalist counter-activities, then there would have been no need for the police/army to have done what they did.

The people to blame for what happened in Northern Ireland are the terrorists and their supporters.

Stageringly ignorant veiw point considering if the british had not occupied our country by force the Irish would never have needed to fight for there freedom. Call it what it is a war. Unless you have lived it dont comment

@FortVictoria

The people of Northern Ireland (Catholic and Protestant alike) ARE British. So quite odd to say the Brits don’t care. Do you mean that the English don't care?

This is a joke right !!! What planet are you on how dare you !!!

@roarfeckingroarr

British police didn't bomb civilians and politicians

Didnt they , check your facts !

I am sick to death of ignorance being used as an excuse where Ireland is concerned particularly in this day and age . I'm not from Yeman , Iraq, India ,China Iran , Ukraine ,Africa ,Kurdistan, Myanmar and on and on and on but I can tell you whats happening currently in these countries and I also understand and I am educated in the how and why these conflicts, wars , famines and struggles have come about .
Self educated I should add , is it because my country has lived ,I have lived with conflict that I care enough to educate myself ? If so is that why most british people dont care because they were the oppressers and not the oppressed ?