Jimmy Carr

[cavalierkingc]

You might of seen outrage about Jimmy Carr joking about the Gypsies that were killed in the holocaust .
Ive seen lots comments calling people 'snowflakes' for being offended.
Aibu to think if it was the other way around and he said that it was a positive the Jewish people were killed nobody would dare say 'just don't watch it then if you font like it.'
I don't believe we should ignore racist 'jokes' like this. Or they never end.

If you didn't see it, he joked that people don't talk about the positives of the Holocaust.
Thousands of people died!

You know, there are a gazillion TV programmes that do the heavy lifting when it comes to the vilification and distasteful othering of travellers/ gypsies and it all flies under the usual radar of typical sensibilities.

Mostly people are blind to it because it doesn't hot their personal give a fuck meter.

Jimmy Carr put a mirror up to that lower level - tolerated- abjection and made it obscene, grotesque for sport. It wouldn't have made sense, it couldn't have been a punchline, if it didn't speak to something that highlighted that nugget of truth - that society holds this deep seated prejudice.

So, no. I don't think we should cancel obscene jokes. It's a hideous lightening bolt of knowing. We should interrogate why it's a joke, why people laughed, how we got there and how is it perpetuated it.

You can cancel all the jokes and it won't wash away the ugly.

It's my opinion that you can always find a way to make a racist or sexist comment acceptable. Usually, you just need to frame it as an overtly naughty thing to say so people will be charmed by your devilish humour. I think he used it in a section called "career enders", the irony being, of course, that he did it to bolster himself and it will probably work. The shocked outrage is exactly what he wants, so people can laugh at how cool they are not to be appalled by it.

Years ago, some rancid fart made a sexist comment in my presence, quickly followed by "ooh, you can't say that these days, can you?" I replied that clearly you could, since he just had, so what was he worried about and what reaction was he hoping for?

Anyone who works in the business of making people laugh should be aware that you are supposed to punch up. If Carr can't think of any humorous way of skewering people who actually deserve it after these last two years, he's worse than merely stale.

Netflix isn't compulsory and it isn't public service television financed by taxpayers, whether they want to or not.
If it isn't your particular brand of humour, don't watch it. There are plenty of comedians I don't like and therefore don't support with my time or money.
No one has a right to go through life not hearing anything which offends them - he has a right to express his art freely and other people have a right to criticise it, but no one has a right to silence an opposing opinion. Or shouldn't have the right, anyway!

No one has a right to go through life not hearing anything which offends them - he has a right to express his art freely and other people have a right to criticise it, but no one has a right to silence an opposing opinion

So we're all good with antisemitism now, it's an expression of art.

Really?

I'm not a huge fan of his. I've seen him live a few times (which is funnier than on TV I have to admit), but I've gone off him recently not because of the jokes, but because it just seems a bit tired. I actually found the funniest bit of his recent show the bit when he talks about how things have changed like videos and tape players, perhaps I'm showing my age!

I agree though that the joke isn't saying "look how funny it is that people died" it's saying "look at how ridiculous people are for ignoring the deaths of a minority group because it suits your agenda".

As such I suspect this recent 'outrage' is probably fuelled by his own PR people because he fancies himself UKs answer to Dave chapelle.

'express his art' is a bit of a stretch.

I agree that people being offended doesn't override everything. But he said it was a positive that thousands of people of a certain racial demographic died in a horrible way. I don't believe there Jimmy Carr is actually racist, he says these jokes to be edgy or whatever, but I would be fucking fuming if a relative of mine had died in such a horrific way. The vain cunt.

CorBlimeyGG So long JC's (or anyone else's) behaviour doesn't infringe upon another person's right to go about their lawful business unharmed, then like it or not, he has the freedom to put whatever he wants into his act. That's what freedom of speech is. Equally the public has a right to stop going to his shows if they choose.

I don't think the joke is saying that at all. People don't ignore it, it's just that the majority of people who died in the Holocaust were Jewish.

If you wouldn't laugh if he said black people, Jews, Pakistanis, then it's equally not as funny if it's gypsys.

The last socially accepted racism. Embarrassing for anyone who thinks it's ok.

You have to look at who's actually the butt of the joke. It's very common for people to tell racist jokes and then claim they're actually just highlighting the terrible nature of racism and actually they meant it as a huge insult to the people who laughed, and who in many cases paid them for the show.

Sometimes the target is indeed racism itself, but those jokes tend to be a bit more sophisticated. If I'm right that Carr branded this one a "career ender", it doesn't sound like he thought people would like it, so who's he actually skewering?

I think you're missing the point. You're not alone, many people seem to be doing the same, so don't feel bad.

The joke was that nobody ever seems to think of the non-Jewish victims of the holocaust. There were many other people killed - travellers, criminals, homosexuals, the disabled. Jews of course were the main target and make up the vast majority of victims, but that's the point - the numbers were so huge, even those in "lesser" groups had large numbers of victims.

Carr was also pointing out the hypocrisy surrounding racism and how it is deemed more acceptable to be racist against some groups than against others. Travellers are more "legitimate" targets than POCs or Jews for example. As a society we can't address that issue unless we are aware of it.

People seem to forget that humour is subjective. There's no definition of what makes something funny. You might like Mrs Brown's Boys, I find it offensive (certainly more offensive than Jimmy Carr). Not all humour is a straightforward joke that is meant on a superficial and obvious level. Some humour needs an understanding of the subject in question, some humour is the presentation of the absurd as something everyday.

If you can only see humour as a straight up literal mocking of events, I feel sorry for you.

Aibu to think if it was the other way around and he said that it was a positive the Jewish people were killed nobody would dare say 'just don't watch it then if you font like it.'
He didn't say that though so it's irrelevant.

If you didn't see it, he joked that people don't talk about the positives of the Holocaust.
Thousands of people died!
"Thousands" of people?! Seriously, this just makes Jimmy Carr's point that people are ignorant of what actually happened in the holocaust. "Millions" might be a better word.

Must admit I haven't actually seen it yet. Probably wouldn't ever have without all the controversy

If the point was actually to highlight how Gypsy people are sometimes overlooked in Holocaust education, I would have thought a better way to do it would have been something like camp guards going through the list of people to exterminate today, reaching the Gypsy people and saying, "Oh shit, I always forget about them." Or something along those lines.

Not to everyone's taste, and I'm not exactly splitting my own sides at the idea. But if he was in fact trying to make a point about them being forgotten, it's a bit clearer.

Jimmy car is known for being a scholar of jokes, he's written a book about how jokes are constructed and is a big fan of Bob monkhouse who also worked on the phrasing very carefully. I'm not sure if your list idea fits in with that @DrSbaitso

I don't think he should be cancelled, but I have lost any respect I had for him.

Freedom of speech comes with responsibility. It is not responsible to joke about the murder of innocent people especially as it is still raw to so many people.

If he does not apologise then I will find it difficult to watch him again although I never really liked his tv programmes much anyway and I would never have gone to see him live even before this.

@DrSbaitso

You have to look at who's actually the butt of the joke. It's very common for people to tell racist jokes and then claim they're actually just highlighting the terrible nature of racism and actually they meant it as a huge insult to the people who laughed, and who in many cases paid them for the show.

Sometimes the target is indeed racism itself, but those jokes tend to be a bit more sophisticated. If I'm right that Carr branded this one a "career ender", it doesn't sound like he thought people would like it, so who's he actually skewering?

Carr frequently does a bit at the end of his shows called career enders. There were more. You'd know if you watched it. It annoys me that people discuss things without all the information. Even if the same conclusion is formed at least make sure you know what you're talking about.

I think what he said was disgusting.

And you KNOW he would never have said this about other certain religions.

NONE of these 'alternative' comedians ever do.

Ive seen him live before and definitely not for the easily offended. I watched the Netflix show last night and probably wouldn't have done without the furore around it. I do wonder how many people have watched the whole thing because there are a whole host of other jokes that you could also get offended about if you so wished!

But lots of comedians do this. Iirc Joan Rivers joked about 9/11. Their job is to push boundaries and make people uncomfortable and therefore think. If you set limits on the topics, then it's thin end of the wedge and comedy eventually gets stifled because no one wants to lose their career.

It is called His Dark Material. He warns at the outset that he will offensive. Don't watch a show with only him in it if you don't like edgy humour.

I agree though that the joke isn't saying "look how funny it is that people died" it's saying "look at how ridiculous people are for ignoring the deaths of a minority group because it suits your agenda

I read it as "Look here, first I'm going to say something many people don't know, in a serious and educational way, cos I'm a good guy"

And then end it by saying something that makes him a complete knob.
Whilst also making people stop and realise that what 'they' are laughing at isn't funny.

Jokes aren't always obvious and slapstick.

I would have thought a better way to do it would have been something like camp guards going through the list of people to exterminate today, reaching the Gypsy people and saying, "Oh shit, I always forget about them." Or something along those lines

That's a bit simplistic and not really comedy.

Carr frequently does a bit at the end of his shows called career enders.

Yes, I know. I mentioned that, twice, and commented on the implications of that for such a joke.

You'd know if you watched it.

I do know, thank you.

It annoys me that people discuss things without all the information. Even if the same conclusion is formed at least make sure you know what you're talking about.

Sweet irony.

@MulticolourTulips

I would have thought a better way to do it would have been something like camp guards going through the list of people to exterminate today, reaching the Gypsy people and saying, "Oh shit, I always forget about them." Or something along those lines

That's a bit simplistic and not really comedy.

I don't find it side splittingly hilarious myself, but it's easier to defend as a humorous attack on the dismissal of Gypsy people rather than the people themselves. It's comedy in that it's a joke of sorts even if it doesn't make you laugh.

Whilst I would hate to live in a country where you can't do anything, or SAY anything, and I do enjoy living in a democracy; I get so fucked off with people using 'free speech' has an excuse to say nasty cunty things. 'Oh, but I can say what I like, free speech innit?' As has been said, with free speech comes responsibility.

Say whatever you like under the 'free speech' banner. But take the consequences, and don't piss and moan, when you're called out/lose your job or career, because of what you've said.