Jimmy Carr

[cavalierkingc]

You might of seen outrage about Jimmy Carr joking about the Gypsies that were killed in the holocaust .
Ive seen lots comments calling people 'snowflakes' for being offended.
Aibu to think if it was the other way around and he said that it was a positive the Jewish people were killed nobody would dare say 'just don't watch it then if you font like it.'
I don't believe we should ignore racist 'jokes' like this. Or they never end.

If you didn't see it, he joked that people don't talk about the positives of the Holocaust.
Thousands of people died!

as long as you label it 'art' or say it was just a joke and meant to be offensive, then it's fine. Apparently.

Hate speech is a crime with a specific definition in law. It's not a card to employ when someone tips over your own personal boundaries of morality, decency or taste.

Look many jokes are intended to offend a certain demographic.

Wives, promiscuous women, a certain culture etc.

Are they offensive? Yes.

Are they funny? Sometimes.

Just because som one tells a joke doesn't mean they agree with what's being said. Many times I've told anti men jokes when in fact I get on with men as a whole better then women I just find the play on words/innuendo/role reversal etc funny.

But obviously I'd choose my audience. Just like Jimmy Carr did when he did it on a show called 'His Dark Materials' emphasis on the dark.

Now if he had done it on a mainstream show I'd say he's not considering his audience but his audience is aware of his edgy humour.

Humour has been used since the Dawn of time to deal with dart subjects, it helps us fear things a lot less.

Does anyone really think Jimmy thinks this?

Also art isn't only art if you personally like it.

@DrSbaitso

I like this back and fourth with you .its fun

Really? I'm getting very bored and might walk out of the show. It's starting to reach THAT point...

What have I said that indicates I cant take.

You said that you liked the joke, and that it's ok because Saint Jimmy The Light Of Society likes to skewer everyone.

I said that being able to hang shit on everyone, including the marginalised, was a benefit of being a rich, privileged white man. You responded: "It nothing but do with his race. Blaming everything on race is what's making us go backwards in race relations."

Thank you, Nelson Mandela.

Then we had this side-splitting exchange:

"I opine that white people get much more permission for this than others."

"Good to see you're giving comedy a go."

Oh the oppressed white people who can't make these jokes. Wait, what were we discussing again?

We are now at THAT point. The one where you're merely going on about your right to hold your opinion, as if anyone had denied it, and then demanding that I go back and copy paste everything you've said.

As a deflection, obfuscation and time wasting tactic, I admit it's not bad. As proof that you're not fine with racist jokes about minorities, but suddenly worried about "going backwards in race relations" when I mention white privilege on such jokes, it sucks. I'm throwing rotten fruit at the stage and I think I'm about to walk out. I'm very bored and the longer it goes on, the better the deflection and obfuscation tactic tends to work.

If your not playing anymore we might have to agree to disagree

[quote Agrudge]@BuddhaForMary

It's not brave to say offensive things on a anonymous forum is it.

What exactly do think will happen if they do?[/quote]
Well knowing MN it'll go against community standards, because you're not allowed to be overly offensive or insulting. The comment will get removed. And if it's bad enough, the poster will be banned.

And that's a great example of what I meant when I said 'free speech doesn't mean freedom from consequence'.

Thought it was quite a funny joke actually....

I'll just say it's a joke ;)

If the consequence ends up being that certain topics become off limits if a comedian wants to continue working, then there's no free speech. People can't afford not to work.

Posters on here are saying they aren't supporting cancel culture and maybe they personally aren't, but that's the natural end result of making any topic off limits.

Ultimately I think if you openly acknowledge that a particular joke could be a "career-ender", you can't really complain if people then call for the end of your career (it won't happen, obviously, but it will be a bit of a painful time for him). He wants to play right on the edge of what's acceptable. The general public haven't found this acceptable. That's the risk you take.

I share a mutual friend with Jimmy and I concur with PPs (and Victoria Coren!) that "in real life" he is a kind, gentle, caring man who wouldn't hurt a fly - but that doesn't make him immune to criticism for his public persona.

Does anyone really think Jimmy thinks this?

Unfortunately some people do, because they think it as well.

@DrSbaitso

I mean look, didn't I say these people can't ever take it themselves? Carr makes a straight up racist joke, people laugh and defend it. I say that only a privileged white person could get this kind of positive reception to it, and suddenly we mustn't bring race into it, that's what's causing racial tensions in society. Do people not hear themselves?

Actually, generally speaking, the only ones to get into trouble for anything racist or 'racist' are white people. Black and other ethnic comedians regularly make fun of white people.

@DrSbaitso

I mean look, didn't I say these people can't ever take it themselves? Carr makes a straight up racist joke, people laugh and defend it. I say that only a privileged white person could get this kind of positive reception to it, and suddenly we mustn't bring race into it, that's what's causing racial tensions in society. Do people not hear themselves?

Actually, generally speaking, the only ones to get into trouble for anything racist or 'racist' are white people. Black and other ethnic comedians regularly make fun of white people.

Actually, generally speaking, the only ones to get into trouble for anything racist or 'racist' are white people. Black and other ethnic comedians regularly make fun of white people.

Apply just a modicum of critical thinking and you'll understand why that is.

Either mocking race is allowable within comedy or it isn't. Regardless of who does it. Same rules should apply to all. Personally I think any comedian should be able to say what they want in their act, so long as their aren't calling upon people to cause harm to others.

@DrSbaitso "No. He's. Not.

It's simply a straight up racist joke for people who enjoy racism if you say it's ok. Don't intellectualise it. There are jokes that attack racism itself and this wasn't one of them. If it happens to highlight that this kind of thing is a problem, great, but it's an unintended consequence. He styled it as an offensive joke. That's his schtick."

But it has opened the discussion hasn't it?

The joke is "we all hate them don't we?" And mostly, yes, you do.

I say this as someone with family from that background whose life got a whole lot easier once I took on my husband's surname and left my heritage revealing maiden name behind me.

Booking a wedding venue with my maiden name was impossible, much easier with my husband's as previously booked up dates suddenly became available when he called.

There are jokes that attack racism itself and this wasn't one of them.

Yep.

This is just Jimmy Carr being a cunt which is what he’s best at.

@DrSbaitso

Not quite, but to be fair it's very easy for someone to avoid hearing Jimmy Carr. I mean you have to actively seek it out and listen to it.

I've always tried to actively avoid him, but I heard about this.

I honestly think most of the people complaining haven't actually seen the show and heard what Jimmy actually said in context, and there are a number of posts like this one that prove it. Watch the whole segment, in context, and then if you still find it career-endingly offensive, come back and explain exactly why.

I'd guess he was having a dig at cancelling. Not many people got off lightly from his show. I'd ask why only one part offended you?

@DrSbaitso

Ultimately, humour is a weapon. Be careful where you point it.

Jimmy Carr is a fuckin' weapon

Just watched the show. Cant say I found any of it offensive

Just watched. The most offensive thing to me was his laugh and the fact he looks like a ventriloquist dummy.

"Thousands of people died"

Over six million Jews alone died, thousands more other "undesirables".

YANBU

I believe every cloud has a silver lining but when it comes to genocide, there are never any positives. As if it even needs to be said.