To be cranky about the £150 council tax rebate

[Notcontent]

I have been thinking a lot about this. I understand that the government was looking for a way to implement help with energy costs in the easiest way possible and that doing it through council tax bands seemed sensible as for the most part it does target the right people. But only for the most part. For example, in London there are lots of people who live in high value properties that are actually far from luxurious and who will miss out. For example, my elderly neighbour will miss out even though he deserves the help. He doesn’t have a lot of money - bought his house decades ago when the area was very cheap and lives very frugally. I know councils will get some extra money to distribute but that will be for only a small number of people.

These kinds of injustices really get to me, as I think when it comes to public money everyone should get equal treatment.

I don’t have a huge amount of sympathy for the gent in the OP-he has assists he could choose to release if he is cash poor.

However, the council tax banding system creates an inherent unfairness-plucking a number out of thin air (ish) for what a house might have been worth in 1991 (even if the house was built years after that!) is never going to produce a fair and equitable result-for council tax charges and for any money linked to your banding.

*assets

I agree with it. Every thing should’nt be based on earnings. Sick of wage earners always being the easiest targets. Tax/benefits system is never going to be completely fair. There are always cliff edges and exceptions. But if someone is sitting in an expensive house they own they aren’t doing too badly.

@DaphneBasset

From the sounds of it, your neighbour's house has hugely appreciated in value. He may have little in the way of cash but it sounds like he has decent wealth. He can downsize anytime he wants. No, I don't feel sorry for him!!

This! And working people are about to be massively taxed so the elderly don't have to sell their assets to fund their care. Working people (many of whom don't have £££ houses) are being massively squeezed. So no it's not fair.

@Inspectorslack

What about the fact that the discount is only for those in England op and that the other nations of the uk are excluded?

And if they do similar where I am, those in most rented accommodation will be excluded?

Rather than feeling sorry for your neighbour who owns his house in London outright?

The other nations of the UK get other benefits that people in England do not, regardlessif they are millionaires or on the poverty line. Free dental treatment and prescriptions, that can easily tot up to more than £150 for each person in a household. I would rather have that than the £150 council tax reductions PER household.

Yes about London.

The capital has the UK’s highest rate of poverty for people of pensionable age. Older Londoners are as diverse as any other age group and face significant socio-economic inequalities impacting all aspects of people’s lives.

24% of Londoners of pensionable age live in poverty (a quarter of a million people). This is a 5% increase since 2017 and 7% more than the rest of England average.

www.ageuk.org.uk/london/projects-campaigns/age-friendly-campaigns/poverty-and-older-londoners-8-facts/

I don't feel sorry for him. I feel sorry that heating allowance for example, is dished out freely to people like him solely on the basis of age (as with other pensioner benefits) and not actual need. Means test it. Like my child benefit which was quickly whipped away easily enough a few years back.

And if people are too frail to move, they've failed to plan for the inevitable and will live with the consequences.

@cptartapp

I don't feel sorry for him. I feel sorry that heating allowance for example, is dished out freely to people like him solely on the basis of age (as with other pensioner benefits) and not actual need. Means test it. Like my child benefit which was quickly whipped away easily enough a few years back.

And if people are too frail to move, they've failed to plan for the inevitable and will live with the consequences.

Careful. Slippery slope. By your own argument, wrt child benefit you should've 'planned for the inevitable' (cost of being a parent) and will 'live with the consequences'.

I emphasise that's not my view. It is what happens when you go down the slippery slope. First the disabled, then pensioners, then single parents, then refugees, then someone else. It keeps going the slippery slope.

And again. As per the link I posted, London pensioner are the poorest in the UK. So if anything they should get more than elsewhere (if we are to do the awful regional divide thing).

Why should the taxpayer pay for someone with a million pounds in assets? Even if his home is indeed suitable or he is too frail to move, he could do equity release. Why should working age people who can’t afford housing pay to give benefits to millionaires?

@Tealightsandd - we should not be paying benefits to millionaires. We are borrowing to pay for government spending as it is - we don’t raise enough tax to pay for it. If single parents, refugees, etc. are also millionaires, I’m quite happy for them not to be given council tax rebates too. They don’t need them.

I don’t know if this is still the case but a number of years ago when Tony Blair left Downing Street and moved into a £7million house in London the reported cost of his council tax bill was less than my small 3 bed semi in the Midlands. That’s what needs sorting out for sure. I pay about 2k a year i think.

It’s hard to feel sorry for someone who is unimaginably wealthy after an asset has appreciated in value by more than I will earn in my lifetime and they paid no tax on that unearned income.

The taxpayer will get back it’s £150 and plenty more when the man dies, and they probably won’t have to wait too long either. I don’t know why people would begrudge it so much on the basis that he has an asset, when as soon as the asset is turned in to cash, the state will take 40% (above the threshold) of it anyway.

I think measures that help as many people as possible are a good thing. It’s worth ensuring the help can reach as many people as possible who are in need, even if that means that a small amount is given to people who don’t really need it.

I’m a bit miffed too. Our street is a mix of band E and D.
Our next door neighbour is band D despite having an identical house.
My friends much more expensive house in a nicer area is band C.

Such a stupid tax really.

Perhaps if builders were not allowed to buy up bungalows and either build mansions or at least two houses on the land there would be places for people to downsize to.

@ToastieSnowy

If he can’t afford it then he needs to sell his expensive home and downsize/ move location just like the rest of us would have to do.

How about being in one of the most deprived wards in the country yet paying one of the most expensive council tax. There’s quite a few areas of the country who pay far far more than the expensive London boroughs. For example while those in City of London pay £1049 a year council tax (band D), Wandsworth & Westminster pay even less than that. Kensington & Chelsea is £1331.

Yet Middlesbrough pay £2104, Gateshead £2145 and County Durham with all the old pit villages about the same.

Let’s start with equality in council tax payments first eh.

Amen to this. The current bandings are archaic!!! But they won't change them based on current house prices for obvious reasons...can't have the rich paying more council tax now, can we?! Just another poor/MC tax, IMO.

[quote CayrolBaaaskin]@Tealightsandd - we should not be paying benefits to millionaires. We are borrowing to pay for government spending as it is - we don’t raise enough tax to pay for it. If single parents, refugees, etc. are also millionaires, I’m quite happy for them not to be given council tax rebates too. They don’t need them.[/quote]
Doesn't matter what a house is supposedly 'worth'. If it's the person's home (as opposed to somebody like Tony Blair with multiple investment properties), than it's not wealth.

Particularly not if they're elderly, frail, or for any other reason not able to move (without immense physical or mental damage). Plus, like I pointed out in many parts of the country, there's a shortage of suitable homes for people to downsize to.

As for the minority of London boroughs with low c tax. Well that's not so good for the many deprived people in those areas who are in need of the public services that council goes towards.

The UK has one of the lowest persions in Europe. And, as per my link above, London's pensioners are the poorest in the UK.

council tax*

@ToastieSnowy

If he can’t afford it then he needs to sell his expensive home and downsize/ move location just like the rest of us would have to do.

How about being in one of the most deprived wards in the country yet paying one of the most expensive council tax. There’s quite a few areas of the country who pay far far more than the expensive London boroughs. For example while those in City of London pay £1049 a year council tax (band D), Wandsworth & Westminster pay even less than that. Kensington & Chelsea is £1331.

Yet Middlesbrough pay £2104, Gateshead £2145 and County Durham with all the old pit villages about the same.

Let’s start with equality in council tax payments first eh.

This!!

@Tealightsandd oh bollocks, of course your house is an asset and forms part of your wealth. He doesnt even have to sell it, he can release equity if he's short of cash. And be bloody glad he's got the option.

Council tax is an incredibly unfair tax. New properties are banded as high as possible and there’s no recourse to appeal as they’ll often be no comparable properties in the area from 1991. So people with families who need bedrooms and are mortgaged up to the hilt are not entitled to anything (despite their house being worth less). Neither are people who don’t pay council tax because they’re exempt. Yes there’s a contingency of £150 million, that’s not going to stretch far is it. Council tax is also not reassessed when value is added to a property or if an area increases in value. It’s an incredibly unfair tax and this just makes it even more so!

I live in Wales. How cross do you think I am?

(Not very, actually, whenever any government money is announced I always assume it won't apply to me until proved otherwise. Saves disappointment, as normally it doesn't. Tax rises seem to be the only thing that reliably effects me.)

And I don't know about Scotland or NI, but we don't get free dental treatment (unless eligible because of low income, pregnancy, etc). Also, we have such an acute shortage of dentists that I have to travel 2 hours to get to an NHS one. And he's got too much work to see me unless/ until I'm actually in pain.

Council tax is also not reassessed when value is added to a property

it can be requested to the valuation office

@ToastieSnowy

If he can’t afford it then he needs to sell his expensive home and downsize/ move location just like the rest of us would have to do.

How about being in one of the most deprived wards in the country yet paying one of the most expensive council tax. There’s quite a few areas of the country who pay far far more than the expensive London boroughs. For example while those in City of London pay £1049 a year council tax (band D), Wandsworth & Westminster pay even less than that. Kensington & Chelsea is £1331.

Yet Middlesbrough pay £2104, Gateshead £2145 and County Durham with all the old pit villages about the same.

Let’s start with equality in council tax payments first eh.

Well said!