To be cranky about the £150 council tax rebate

[Notcontent]

I have been thinking a lot about this. I understand that the government was looking for a way to implement help with energy costs in the easiest way possible and that doing it through council tax bands seemed sensible as for the most part it does target the right people. But only for the most part. For example, in London there are lots of people who live in high value properties that are actually far from luxurious and who will miss out. For example, my elderly neighbour will miss out even though he deserves the help. He doesn’t have a lot of money - bought his house decades ago when the area was very cheap and lives very frugally. I know councils will get some extra money to distribute but that will be for only a small number of people.

These kinds of injustices really get to me, as I think when it comes to public money everyone should get equal treatment.

He doesn’t have a lot of money - bought his house decades ago when the area was very cheap and lives very frugally.

But that was always his choice. His house has to be worth....what...over a million pounds?

🤣 I can find plenty more people to feel sorry for than those that own their house outright!

It’s his home though. Not his fault it’s worth a million pounds. Big upheaval and lots of stress for him to move. Why should he?

I think there will be a discretionary payment from the council for people in his situation.

If he can’t afford it then he needs to sell his expensive home and downsize/ move location just like the rest of us would have to do.

How about being in one of the most deprived wards in the country yet paying one of the most expensive council tax. There’s quite a few areas of the country who pay far far more than the expensive London boroughs. For example while those in City of London pay £1049 a year council tax (band D), Wandsworth & Westminster pay even less than that. Kensington & Chelsea is £1331.

Yet Middlesbrough pay £2104, Gateshead £2145 and County Durham with all the old pit villages about the same.

Let’s start with equality in council tax payments first eh.

No, not worth a million and really very basic. There are lots of people like him in my area. He would not apply to the council as he is just not that sort of person - proud of being self sufficient.

The point I am making is that there will be lots of people with a lot more cash getting this rebate - but people like my neighbour will not.

I agree OP. I feel it should be means tested rather than purely on bandings. Although I don't see how the government would be able to develop an infrastructure for a new means tested rebate between now and April 1st unfortunately.

Most elderly people don’t want to move as it’s too much of an upheaval.

In any case, a few of the properties are council owned, so the argument that people should just move to a cheaper house doesn’t really work in London. Btw, my borough actually has quite expensive council tax.

The council tax band is based on property value in 1991 when London property prices were significantly less insane. I live in a Band B property in the North West and have just discovered I pay more Council tax than someone in a D property in a number of London boroughs.

@Notcontent

No, not worth a million and really very basic. There are lots of people like him in my area. He would not apply to the council as he is just not that sort of person - proud of being self sufficient.

The point I am making is that there will be lots of people with a lot more cash getting this rebate - but people like my neighbour will not.

There are lots of people like him in my area. He would not apply to the council as he is just not that sort of person - proud of being self sufficient.

Again - his choice

The point I am making is that there will be lots of people with a lot more cash getting this rebate - but people like my neighbour will not.

Well no because according to you, he doesn't want to sell his house, buy a cheaper one and live off the equity. And he's 'not the sort of person' who wants to help himself by applying to the council.

I'm not sure what you want people to say?

How do you know he's struggling for cash though? I seem to know lots of elderly people who live like paupers but actually doing very well for themselves, a lot better than me. My grandma springs to mind, you'd think she was in dire straits the way she lives, she is extremely frugal to the point where I think it's no way of living, her neighbours probably think she is is hard up as well and probably feel so sorry for her at the moment, and yet she has loads of bloody money!

From the sounds of it, your neighbour's house has hugely appreciated in value. He may have little in the way of cash but it sounds like he has decent wealth. He can downsize anytime he wants.
No, I don't feel sorry for him!!

@ToastieSnowy

If he can’t afford it then he needs to sell his expensive home and downsize/ move location just like the rest of us would have to do.

How about being in one of the most deprived wards in the country yet paying one of the most expensive council tax. There’s quite a few areas of the country who pay far far more than the expensive London boroughs. For example while those in City of London pay £1049 a year council tax (band D), Wandsworth & Westminster pay even less than that. Kensington & Chelsea is £1331.

Yet Middlesbrough pay £2104, Gateshead £2145 and County Durham with all the old pit villages about the same.

Let’s start with equality in council tax payments first eh.

Yeah that lower tax thing (which by the way is just a couple out of 32 London boroughs). It's nothing to envy. The consequences are a severe lack of support for the very many poorer and vulnerable people in London.

Kensington and Chelsea has a lower c tax than where you are? Maybe that's why there's so much deprivation in that borough - the borough of Grenfell.

London is the epicentre of the public health housing and homelessness emergency.

Not much more deprived than no home. Two thirds of all of England's homeless families are in London. They face social housing waiting lists of 10-15 years, often longer.

Ain't no good to Londoners, London having lower tax when they're socially cleansed away from family, communities, and support networks. Nor is it any good when public services are blighted by cut after cut after cut.

uk.news.yahoo.com/map-richest-area-uk-how-much-wealth-150957367.html

The region of Inner London East is the least wealthy, with median wealth of £26,400 per person.

And this article by Omar Khan on, as he describes, The lazy and reductive “London is cosmopolitan elite" is well worth a read. Remember that Kensington and Chelsea is the borough of Grenfell.

Even 72 people dying in the Grenfell Tower tragedy, a preventable fire which happened within sight of Parliament, hasn’t dislodged the dominant narrative of London as a leafy cosmopolitan elite bubble.

citymonitor.ai/government/why-aren-t-working-class-people-living-cities-also-left-behind-469

@Tealightsandd are you seriously arguing that London home owners are counted amongst the urban poor?

Council tax is a regressive tax and is not related to a persons ability to pay. It definitely needs reform.
I am in a northern ex mining town, band c so will get the support but I am a single occupier so do I get the £150 less 25percent?

It annoyed me too as we have a high council tax band despite not having a large house or a high income. Somehow we're band F despite our house being smaller than my dad's extended band C semi.
It's because we're in a small group of 6 houses, the others mainly being large barn conversions worth a lot of money.
Our council tax already gets us sod all as they don't maintain the road, there's no street lighting and they won't provide the recycling service the rest of the town gets. The bands are much higher here than where we lived before too. I miss my band A tax from my previous (much nicer) house.

It should be means tested rather than council tax bands. I was very surprised babe D was included. My house is D band, it’s a four bed worth over £400k. Our household income is nearly £90k. £150 discount is pretty meaningless for us and we don’t need it, more should be given to people who do need it instead.

Can't agree with you OP. Both the £150 council tax rebate and £200 loan on power bills are poorly thought out and meant to make the government look like they are doing something, but it's a sleight of hand as they give with one and take more with the other.

The 'poor' pensioner sitting on a £100,000s property has an easy solution that's not available to the vast majority of families who will be faced with a stark choice between food or power.

If he is above band D the value must have been fairly high in 1991, it must be worth loads now after years of soaring property prices in London. He might be 'poor' but he is asset rich, if he bought it when it was a low price he probably stands to make hundreds of thousands of profit even if he did sell. His choice not to, so no I don't feel too sad for people like him really.

Yeah my poxy little 2 bed terrace was valued at band c. I appealed as I literally purchase it that year for a band B price. I lost as other houses on the street were worth more. They were 3 bed end terraces ffs.
Council tax band is no way to determine wealth.

As a previous poster said Ctax bands were set in 1991 so unless was extended vastly before he bought it I doubt he is in band E or higher. What band is your council tax OP? It’s likely that you are in the same bands. Your statement that lots of ex council houses will loose out too is also wrong as council house were normally valued in lower bands.

Also regarding means testing it, the process of having a system which does this and the correct permissions to share that data etc would cost loads, it's not worth it. The amount that goes to people who don't really need it probably won't be far off the cost of administering a process.

@ToastieSnowy

If he can’t afford it then he needs to sell his expensive home and downsize/ move location just like the rest of us would have to do.

How about being in one of the most deprived wards in the country yet paying one of the most expensive council tax. There’s quite a few areas of the country who pay far far more than the expensive London boroughs. For example while those in City of London pay £1049 a year council tax (band D), Wandsworth & Westminster pay even less than that. Kensington & Chelsea is £1331.

Yet Middlesbrough pay £2104, Gateshead £2145 and County Durham with all the old pit villages about the same.

Let’s start with equality in council tax payments first eh.

Very much this. I'm in the North East am disgusted that we pay such high charges compared to London boroughs when the average wage is a fraction.

Your neighbour has the.choice to downsize, most people in the North don't have the choice the earn more as there is a wage ceiling.

@TheDoveFromAboveCooCoo

I agree OP. I feel it should be means tested rather than purely on bandings. Although I don't see how the government would be able to develop an infrastructure for a new means tested rebate between now and April 1st unfortunately.

Means testing often costs more than it saves and people still fail through the net or get more than they need.

It's a joke anyway , my council tax is going up 4% so once the 4% is added on then the £150 taken off it actually works out I will be paying £8 a month less than I'm paying now , wow