To think that JK Rowling is being vilified for standing for women and children?

[ExtraPlinky]

Getting sick of seeing her being torn down constantly on social media.
Her essays are thoughtful and careful and she's primarily concerned with safeguarding.

AIBU to say it's a witch hunt?

@Janesmom

I don’t understand which women and children she’s meant to be standing up for. Please stop pretending all women hold these views.

Not in my name.

Well let's see shall we?

Volant Trust - 20 years this has been a grant-making trust, which primarily helps fund charitable organisations and projects based in Scotland working to alleviate social deprivation, particularly concerned with women, children and young people. Grants of up to £45K available across Scotland - £26million grants since 2017

£1million donation to Crisis and Refuge during corona virus lockdowns

I suspect she speaks on a lot of issues that the women in those charities agree with. So that's women and children who are the victims of domestic abuse.

Had you read her essay, her words rather than the bastardised version so popular cross so much of SM, you would know that, as she set it out REALLY plainly!

Why would you not agree with that? Is supporting women who have experienced domestic violence anathem to you? Or have you not enquired too deeply into the truth of what she has actually said?

@CosmosLily we get that. But just as Tom Cruise is hounded for his religious beliefs JKR is hounded for her beliefs that women are women and men are men. Comments about their personal lives, business acumen etc are coloured by the posters perception of those beliefs.

They don't happen in a vacuum.

Don't like her writing.

Fair enough, but no reason to dislike her personally.

Didn't like Harry Potter books and think that she's overly praised for them.

See above. And direct the criticism to the people doing the actual thing you dislike, ie overpraising her. That's not her doing.

Seems patronising when she speaks.

Ok. Entirely subjective. No need to watch. Not a moral issue.

Seems like she thinks she's better than everyone.

Unless one says why, this is pretty meaningless.

Just bugs me.

Again, subjective and not a moral issue. And again, if you can't explain why, it's possible the fault isn't with her.

She just seems odd and I can't put my finger on why I dislike her

As before. I wouldn't expect someone who could conceive of plots and worlds as wildly imaginative, detailed and well laid as Harry Potter to come across as completely on an ordinary wavelength. Her brain is exceptional.

Don't get what all the fuss is about, there are so many much much better authors who don't get anywhere near as much praise, from equally as working-class backgrounds

See first and second points. Not her doing.

Of the few points here that are based in stuff she's done, and not things other people have done (eg overpraising), they're all subjective and mostly based in things people can't define or explain. That doesn't mean they haven't got a right to feel that way, but in my experience, a strong dislike that you can't actually explain when asked usually points elsewhere. I'm sure we would all agree that even if she does come across as odd or patronising, that's no reason for threats of pipebombs and rape by cactus. So if there is a thread about that problem, and someone finds it more important to pipe up that they wouldn't choose to have a beer with her, it's possibly a sign of priorities gone a bit awry.

@DrSbaitso

Don't like her writing.

Fair enough, but no reason to dislike her personally.

Didn't like Harry Potter books and think that she's overly praised for them.

See above. And direct the criticism to the people doing the actual thing you dislike, ie overpraising her. That's not her doing.

Seems patronising when she speaks.

Ok. Entirely subjective. No need to watch. Not a moral issue.

Seems like she thinks she's better than everyone.

Unless one says why, this is pretty meaningless.

Just bugs me.

Again, subjective and not a moral issue. And again, if you can't explain why, it's possible the fault isn't with her.

She just seems odd and I can't put my finger on why I dislike her

As before. I wouldn't expect someone who could conceive of plots and worlds as wildly imaginative, detailed and well laid as Harry Potter to come across as completely on an ordinary wavelength. Her brain is exceptional.

Don't get what all the fuss is about, there are so many much much better authors who don't get anywhere near as much praise, from equally as working-class backgrounds

See first and second points. Not her doing.

Of the few points here that are based in stuff she's done, and not things other people have done (eg overpraising), they're all subjective and mostly based in things people can't define or explain. That doesn't mean they haven't got a right to feel that way, but in my experience, a strong dislike that you can't actually explain when asked usually points elsewhere. I'm sure we would all agree that even if she does come across as odd or patronising, that's no reason for threats of pipebombs and rape by cactus. So if there is a thread about that problem, and someone finds it more important to pipe up that they wouldn't choose to have a beer with her, it's possibly a sign of priorities gone a bit awry.

Those are all of your own reasons for disagreeing with those comments, which is fair enough and your prerogative to feel. What I'm talking about is someone posting any single one of those comments on a thread online (NOT about her women's rights stance) and almost immediately getting a ton of messages from JKR supporters calling this poster anti-feminist and how dare they say those things, they must not be very smart, have you READ her essay for goodness sake etc. The same wouldn't be done for almost anyone else. I see "I don't like Tom Cruise" (or whichever other celeb/person of high profile) constantly and no one gets that "abuse" (for lack of a better word). But as soon as it's JKR, a general dislike of her (not her women's rights stance) is turned into "if you hate her you must hate all women and women's rights and think this and that". Their comment is analysed, their reasons are analysed and turned into something much bigger than a simple "don't like her personally".

[quote SamphiretheStickerist]@CosmosLily we get that. But just as Tom Cruise is hounded for his religious beliefs JKR is hounded for her beliefs that women are women and men are men. Comments about their personal lives, business acumen etc are coloured by the posters perception of those beliefs.

They don't happen in a vacuum.[/quote]
On Mumsnet, perhaps, certainly if you know a certain posters history etc on women's rights. But on twitter, reddit and the likes when Susan from Southshields says she doesn't like JKR (and she has no suspicious posting activity and it's not in the context of women's rights) she's often met with the same nasty comments, questioning her sanity and morals. When Jane from Brighton says she doesn't like Tom Cruise or Holly Willoughby, everyone just skirts on by thinking "fair enough, can't like everyone".

What I'm talking about is someone posting any single one of those comments on a thread online (NOT about her women's rights stance) and almost immediately getting a ton of messages from JKR supporters calling this poster anti-feminist and how dare they say those things, they must not be very smart, have you READ her essay for goodness sake etc. The same wouldn't be done for almost anyone else.

Maybe that's because those of us who HAVE bothered to read the actual words she used, what she really did say, are waiting for any single one of thoie people who have not to admit they have not and maybe even to go and read her words as she wrote them!

It's a very long running theme across most SM sites. If you are unaware, go read her essay and se why "She's so transphobic" etc is really irritating. It is just as irritating as the "Well, what has she actually done for women?" crap!

Here, horses mouth:

www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/

On Mumsnet, perhaps Well, you are currently on Mumsnet.

Do you tell people on Twitter to mind their manners because Mumsnet says something different? Or is it just here that you feel free to tell women to mind their manners?

What I'm talking about is someone posting any single one of those comments on a thread online (NOT about her women's rights stance) and almost immediately getting a ton of messages from JKR supporters

And what I'm saying is that if you see a thread about the revolting, violent minded, misogynistic abuse she gets daily, and you think what it needs is your contribution on why you don't like her personally - which, according to your list, will be a subjective, non-moral issue that you can't explain at best - it's quite likely that you do have some sort of prejudice you're not exploring or admitting, because your priorities within the discussion are a bit whacked.

And you do find, as we've shown you, that these people do tend to have... corresponding issues elsewhere.

Nobody minds if you don't fancy having a drink with JKR personally, but it's not exactly relevant, so why try to insert it? What's the purpose?

@Gizacluethen

Threatening to rape and murder anyone is obviously vile.

I personally think she latches onto whatever "struggle" is going off into the world to stay relevant. But I wouldn't spit vitriol about it, alot of people are doing the same.

How on earth do you work that out? If your hypothesis was correct she'd just fall onto the TWAW side to earn woke cookies.

She has no need to 'remain relevant'. She's almost a billionaire (only reason she isn't one is that she's such a generous philanthropist) and still has new films coming out.

YANBU OP. Her treatment is shameful and wilfully ignorant, just more misogyny.

@Binglebong

That should have said Umbridge's Army. Bloody autocorrect.

Or even the Inquisitorial Squad.

To believe she is against trans people after reading that essay, you have to believe that a) she meant things she didn't say AND b) she said things she didn't mean. In other words, that she intends the exact opposite of bloody everything she wrote.

Perhaps you do believe her to be a gross liar, but
what discussion, or solution, can there be if you're just going to say she's lying every time she agrees with you?

Samphire You're missing my point. If someone pipes up with "JKR is transphobic" then by all means get into a discussion, question their morals etc. What I am talking about, is someone simply posting "I don't like JKR because (insert banal reason)" VS "I don't like Tom Cruise because (insert banal reason)" within a discussion that has nothing to do with their religious, feminist etc views. The latter is taken as "oh alright then fair enough" whereas the former is treated as something terrible, linking to the essay (as you have done to me, for some unknown reason) and more.

If it's fair to say you don't like Tom Cruise because you can't stand the guys acting, then it's also fair to say you don't like JKR because you can't stand her writing, without everything good they've ever done being brought into the discussion. I'm not saying it'll make sense to you, or that you'll agree, but it is ok to say you don't like someone without having every single good thing they've done thrown in your face and told you're wrong and how dare you, you must hate all women.

DrSbaitso - I take your point, it's an unnecessary comment on a thread that isn't relevant to whether you like her personally, I suppose these thoughts came to my mind after seeing the "you must be jealous" comment, which granted, was made towards a poster who holds certain views that I wasn't aware of when I first posted.

My own point doesn't change and remains just as valid in my own mind, but this thread isn't the correct context for it. Fair enough.

On Mumsnet, perhaps, certainly if you know a certain posters history etc on women's rights. But on twitter, reddit and the likes when Susan from Southshields says she doesn't like JKR (and she has no suspicious posting activity and it's not in the context of women's rights) she's often met with the same nasty comments, questioning her sanity and morals. When Jane from Brighton says she doesn't like Tom Cruise or Holly Willoughby, everyone just skirts on by thinking "fair enough, can't like everyone".

Unfortunately, the walls of abuse heaped on JKR have changed the context so this is very much a false equivalence. Feeling the need to express your inexplicable and subjective dislike for someone who receives death and rape threats daily is not the same as expressing it for people who are not mired in the same poison.

If you don't like being told you're anti feminist or whatever, imagine what it's like being told to choke on dicks daily.

I wonder if Tom Cruise gets rape threats for being a bit odd

The things JK Rowling did for literacy levels alone are such a huge contribution to the world.

Do people on Twitter genuinely have conversations where they're like: Don't like X person. No reason. Just my own ridiculous subjective feeling?
What a hate filled place it must be. Perhaps instead of inserting your random thoughts on this unrelated Mumsnet thread, you need to pop off to Twitter and tell them if they can't say something nice it's better to say nothing at all.

*Unfortunately, the walls of abuse heaped on JKR have changed the context so this is very much a false equivalence. Feeling the need to express your inexplicable and subjective dislike for someone who receives death and rape threats daily is not the same as expressing it for people who are not mired in the same poison.

If you don't like being told you're anti feminist or whatever, imagine what it's like being told to choke on dicks daily.*

I'm sure that there are plenty of people in the public eye who have received mountains of absolutely awful abuse on a daily basis. Britney Spears and Lindsay Lohan as a couple of examples have received so much, certainly in recent years, but their names are also thrown around with "don't like her, can't stand her" without anyone batting an eyelid. Granted, Tom Cruise wasn't the best example, I just used him because I personally don't like him!

I wonder if Tom Cruise gets rape threats for being a bit odd

I'm sure he has over the years. Not comparing the two, but I'm sure he has, I'm sure everyone in the public eye has and it's awful.

@Dutch1e

I wonder if Tom Cruise gets rape threats for being a bit odd

I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised if his Katy Holmes had to use a women's refuge when exiting him.

It's funny that people think she could be cowed by hate mail from lunatics who read shitty press outlets. Didn't they read Goblet of Fire?

Samphire You're missing my point. I am trying hard not to. But do feel you are sidestepping mine.

This is Mumsnet. Not Twitter etc. The discussion is about JK Rowling. Not Tom Cruise. The history of the abuse heaped upon JK Rowling is long discussed here and many women, gender critical or otherwise, are going to treat to the banality, brevity, uninformed nature of many posts in a way that is specific to Mumsnet because of the nature of the site.

Don't like Tom Cruise or Holly Willoughby, fine! But don't join with those who regularly tell women to die in a grease fire, piss up the office doors of women who believe that sex is immutable, send police to the homes of women for simply stating biological facts and actively set out to doxx or to no platfom women, lose them their jobs, fight for legislation to put male bodied people sentenced for sex crimes in to the female estate then look away when that man commits sexual vioence against the female prisoners.

If you join your voice with theirs you will get short shrift here. Well, actually, initially you will get a long and detailed explanation of why you are being challenged and later given short shrift if you don't engage with what is being offered up for perusal.

@WorriedMumsDontSleep

The things JK Rowling did for literacy levels alone are such a huge contribution to the world.

Do people on Twitter genuinely have conversations where they're like: Don't like X person. No reason. Just my own ridiculous subjective feeling?
What a hate filled place it must be. Perhaps instead of inserting your random thoughts on this unrelated Mumsnet thread, you need to pop off to Twitter and tell them if they can't say something nice it's better to say nothing at all.

Unfortunately, those conversations are everywhere, even on MN. There have indeed been threads about which celebs people hate.

Not comparing the two

No, that would be ridiculous. Perhaps you need to start your #benice Twitter campaign with him.

I'm sure he has over the years. Not comparing the two, but I'm sure he has

You're comparing the two.

But given that you are, how much do you think he got compared to JKR? And from whom? And why?

Compare the two.

@SamphiretheStickerist

Samphire You're missing my point. I am trying hard not to. But do feel you are sidestepping mine.

This is Mumsnet. Not Twitter etc. The discussion is about JK Rowling. Not Tom Cruise. The history of the abuse heaped upon JK Rowling is long discussed here and many women, gender critical or otherwise, are going to treat to the banality, brevity, uninformed nature of many posts in a way that is specific to Mumsnet because of the nature of the site.

Don't like Tom Cruise or Holly Willoughby, fine! But don't join with those who regularly tell women to die in a grease fire, piss up the office doors of women who believe that sex is immutable, send police to the homes of women for simply stating biological facts and actively set out to doxx or to no platfom women, lose them their jobs, fight for legislation to put male bodied people sentenced for sex crimes in to the female estate then look away when that man commits sexual vioence against the female prisoners.

If you join your voice with theirs you will get short shrift here. Well, actually, initially you will get a long and detailed explanation of why you are being challenged and later given short shrift if you don't engage with what is being offered up for perusal.

I'm really sorry, I wasn't trying to sidestep yours at all. I think in my original post, or one soon after, I did mention that I wasn't just talking about MN (despite posting on MN, indeed). I was speaking in more general terms on the online world in general. All sparked by seeing a poster say something along the lines of "jealous much?" to a poster who said they didn't like her. I've since been told that poster has a history of posting certain things, hence the responses from other posters that gave them short shrift - I didn't know any of that and simply thought it was another example of someone saying "I don't like her" and then getting piled on by loads of other posters who hold JKR as a hero.

I also have acknowledged that whilst my point remains valid in my own head, that this probably wasn't the place to post it, the above reasons are why I did, and turns out was wrong about it as I don't know the history of some posters here.