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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that JK Rowling is being vilified for standing for women and children?

285 replies

ExtraPlinky · 05/02/2022 12:41

Getting sick of seeing her being torn down constantly on social media.
Her essays are thoughtful and careful and she's primarily concerned with safeguarding.

AIBU to say it's a witch hunt?

OP posts:
WorriedMumsDontSleep · 07/02/2022 09:37

Terfs*

CosmosLily · 07/02/2022 09:49

I've just looked back and it was 1 poster (Viviennemary) who got responses, apologies, I thought it was 2 separate posters who got the responses. All this poster said was that they think JKR was too big for her boots, didnt give any context to their opinion but was called jealous. Another poster simply asked "how so" but a couple of the others were defending JKR when Vivenne didnt give any reason, so not much to defend. I've just seen it in many places over the past few months/years that when people say they dont like JKR they're met with not very pleasant comments, calling them out for not supporting womens rights. Sometimes, it's just a case of "dont like her". (Not talking about the one poster who called JKR transphobic on this thread)

SamphiretheStickerist · 07/02/2022 09:51

@CosmosLily

Yes, of course. I'm talking about a couple of people on this thread who have said they dont like her and have been met with a response of "jealously isn't attractive" (or something like that) and long posts kinda calling them out in disbelief. You can simply not like someone without being jealous of them or being against womens rights etc. I'm afraid I see it often on here whenever anyone mentions they dont like JKR, they're met with these types of comments and worse. It's just a bit silly imo.
Too big for her boots has a certain connotation to it, accusing someone of hubris, arrogance.

They are talking about somone who has experienced poverty and donestic violence and has raised millions of pounds for charities supporting women and children.

Where is the hubris in that?

No? Me either. That's why some will call those comments jealous, uninformed etc.

I don't know the woman, haven't read the books or watched the films. But I know a witch hunt when I see one. And ANY woman who chooses to denigrate another woman for remembering her roots and being wealthy enough to make an actual difference needs their head testing!

That's more than a bit silly, IMO!

WorriedMumsDontSleep · 07/02/2022 09:54

A quick look through a posters past posts is illuminating.

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 07/02/2022 09:54

@CorrBlimeyGG

She is transphobic, she conflates trans women with sex abusers. She does not speak for all women, thankfully.
Please present proof of this?
DrSbaitso · 07/02/2022 09:59

Too big for her bootshas a certain connotation to it, accusing someone of hubris, arrogance. They are talking about somone who has experienced poverty and donestic violence and has raised millions of pounds for charities supporting women and children.

That poster has form for speaking about women in this way. They're currently on the thread about the guy who doesn't want to pay CM for his 17 year old who's working while in education, having recently recovered from an accident that made him unable to work for a while. The poster is complaining that women saying the guy should still be paying maintenance for his child now he's working again are examples of the "evil" attitude towards men on MN. Evil.

The poster may have a flowery, overtly feminine name, but they sure as fuck sound like my dad.

HermioneKipper · 07/02/2022 10:04

She speaks for me. I’m very grateful for her. The abuse she gets is disgusting and I’m in awe of how she handles it

CosmosLily · 07/02/2022 10:08

Then absolutely fair enough for that particular poster, I wasnt aware that this is a common thing for them.
Samphire, if you're aware of the above then please disregard this entirely, but your post is all an assumption of what you think they meant by that one comment, they didnt explain, so I dont think its right to assume.

Overall, I've just seen it plenty of times that people say they dont particularly like JKR, or that they hate her, cant stand her without giving their reasons why, yet they're ambushed by a bunch of other posters, all telling the poster things along the lines of "so you disagree with all womens rights" "you must be jealous" etc. If they give context then fair enough to respond accordingly and that's not what I'm talking about here, just the posters who state their dislike in one sentence.

SamphiretheStickerist · 07/02/2022 10:21

@CosmosLily I've had a few exchanges with that poster. That comment is par for the course for them. If you stick around and read a lot more here you get to know the general tone of many posters, through many name changes sometimes.

But I will try to remember to add a note to that effect in future posts, so newer posters don't feel someone is being hard done by! It's always good to be reminded that not everyone posts on this part of the site as much as I do Smile

CosmosLily · 07/02/2022 10:29

@SamphiretheStickerist I wasnt aware of that at all, so yes would definitely be good to add a note for other posters who may not be aware 😊

ButWhereDidTheWindComeFrom · 07/02/2022 10:34

I stand with JKR

DrSbaitso · 07/02/2022 10:41

[quote CosmosLily]@SamphiretheStickerist I wasnt aware of that at all, so yes would definitely be good to add a note for other posters who may not be aware 😊[/quote]
The thing is, Cosmos, when you take the trans issue out of the equation, she's not known for much else outside of being a phenomenally successful and imaginative writer, a domestic abuse survivor and a shit ton of charity work and charity donations. She's one of those people who chooses not to be a billionaire because she gives so much away.

One may not like her books, and that's fair enough, but there's actually nothing to object to morally unless you think she's wrong not to compromise women's rights and safety to a system that would allow any intact male people in completely unchecked. So when people like dear, girlish "Vivienne" and others plop on threads about her to say nothing except that she's got ideas above her station or she needs to stop speaking, yet never actually say WHY....well, it often goes alongside another particular set of beliefs that shouldn't really surprise anyone.

DrSbaitso · 07/02/2022 10:42

Oh, sorry...she's also known for being very pro gay rights and anti-racist. Despite the increasingly deranged lies being spread everywhere about her, including false tweets.

CosmosLily · 07/02/2022 10:49

DrSbaitso And that's all absolutely fine, but we can't police who people like and who people don't. It really isn't out of the ordinary to dislike someone regardless of their achievements, I can think of many people in the public eye that people dislike despite their work, yet when people share this opinion they don't tend to get vilified for it (the majority of the time, I accept it does happen), but it happens really often with JKR. Just because JKR has done great things, it doesn't mean that no one is allowed to dislike her.

The comments that I've seen (not on this thread) that I'm talking about are all over the internet - people simply say "can't stand the woman" "nah I don't like her at all" etc and are immediately met with angry posters who fully support her, calling them out, calling them anti-feminist and a bunch of other things. That's what I think is a bit silly, because it's everyone prerogative to dislike whoever they dislike and no one is immune to it, just because they've done good things like donate to charity, etc.

WorriedMumsDontSleep · 07/02/2022 10:55

And I would expect someone who dislikes a writer due to their writing style to expand on that a bit.

Like when I say I don't like Dickens because of the endless description. I also don't like him because he tried to have his wife commited when he tired of her. Him handwringing about poor, vulnerable rings hollow when you know something about his personal life.

But if I just said he was a hypocritical and overrated writer I would expect some disagreement.

DrSbaitso · 07/02/2022 10:55

@CosmosLily

DrSbaitso And that's all absolutely fine, but we can't police who people like and who people don't. It really isn't out of the ordinary to dislike someone regardless of their achievements, I can think of many people in the public eye that people dislike despite their work, yet when people share this opinion they don't tend to get vilified for it (the majority of the time, I accept it does happen), but it happens really often with JKR. Just because JKR has done great things, it doesn't mean that no one is allowed to dislike her.

The comments that I've seen (not on this thread) that I'm talking about are all over the internet - people simply say "can't stand the woman" "nah I don't like her at all" etc and are immediately met with angry posters who fully support her, calling them out, calling them anti-feminist and a bunch of other things. That's what I think is a bit silly, because it's everyone prerogative to dislike whoever they dislike and no one is immune to it, just because they've done good things like donate to charity, etc.

Well I take your point on that, and just the other day on another thread I was saying that accusations of jealousy aren't usually helpful.

But the thing is, these people are repeatedly asked precisely WHY they don't like her, and apart from "too big for her boots" or equivalent, we never hear any actual reasoning. Given there's nothing objectionable outside, arguably, her stance on women's rights, it's hard to see what else they could be getting at, especially if they've got form for, say, calling women evil for holding a man responsible to his financial commitments to his children.

Still, I could be convinced otherwise. Come on, all you people who think she's awful and transphobic. What's she done? What's she said? If you're going to make such strong accusations of such terrible things, you should be able to back them up. What, exactly, has she actually done?

Janesmom · 07/02/2022 10:58

I don’t understand which women and children she’s meant to be standing up for. Please stop pretending all women hold these views.

Not in my name.

WorriedMumsDontSleep · 07/02/2022 11:01

@Janesmom

I don’t understand which women and children she’s meant to be standing up for. Please stop pretending all women hold these views.

Not in my name.

Women is refuges don't want access for males made easier Jane. Having fled her abusive husband and used one, JK would know why they're important.

If you want to 'be kind' crack on. But you don't get to give away women's sports, spaces and rights on behalf of other women either.

CosmosLily · 07/02/2022 11:01

DrSbaitso Then I'm sorry you haven't seen people give their explanations as to why they don't like her (outside of her stance on women's rights) as I've seen it plenty and they're all valid reasons to the person disliking her, doesn't mean anyone need agree with them, of course, but some do give their own reasons when asked. Again, this is outside of her women's rights stance that I'm talking about.

I personally dislike Tom Cruise, he annoys me whenever I see him on screen and he seems a very strange person wrapped up in a cult, yet whenever I express that online, I'm never met with angry messages, rather just people either speaking of their own dislike of him, or asking for more info because they're interested. Yet if I was to say I don't like JKR for whatever reason (outside of women's rights stance) then I would be vilified for that and called anti-feminist, I've seen it happen to people.

DrSbaitso · 07/02/2022 11:03

I've seen it plenty and they're all valid reasonsto the person disliking her, doesn't mean anyone need agree with them, of course, but some do give their own reasons when asked. Again, this is outside of her women's rights stance that I'm talking about.

Ok. I haven't seen them...what are they?

WorriedMumsDontSleep · 07/02/2022 11:04

very strange person wrapped up in a cult
Valid reason.
More substance than too big for boots.

Viviennemary · 07/02/2022 11:04

Exactly. I don't like her. Never have. Long before this Trans issue reared its head.

DrSbaitso · 07/02/2022 11:08

@Viviennemary

Exactly. I don't like her. Never have. Long before this Trans issue reared its head.
Yes, but we all know what else you don't like, so this won't surprise anyone.

Anyone else?

DrSbaitso · 07/02/2022 11:11

@Janesmom

I don’t understand which women and children she’s meant to be standing up for. Please stop pretending all women hold these views.

Not in my name.

The ones who don't want a feminine gender identity (ie, a natally male body, even one with no alteration whatsoever) to be considered as exactly the same as a female body when considering issues such as sport, a rape survivor's wish for a female counsellor at a crisis centre and schemes set up to try to level the playing field for girls in, say STEM or aviation.
CosmosLily · 07/02/2022 11:15

@DrSbaitso

I've seen it plenty and they're all valid reasonsto the person disliking her, doesn't mean anyone need agree with them, of course, but some do give their own reasons when asked. Again, this is outside of her women's rights stance that I'm talking about.

Ok. I haven't seen them...what are they?

These are some I've seen online from people, off the top of my head (and remember, this is out of the context of her women's rights stance, and not my reasons, just stuff I've seen said online.)
  • Don't like her writing.
  • Didn't like Harry Potter books and think that she's overly praised for them.
  • Seems patronising when she speaks.
  • Seems like she thinks she's better than everyone.
  • Just bugs me.
  • She just seems odd and I can't put my finger on why I dislike her
  • Don't get what all the fuss is about, there are so many much much better authors who don't get anywhere near as much praise, from equally as working-class backgrounds

Now put "Tom Cruise" in front of all of those. "I don't like his movies. I didn't like Mission Impossible, don't get what all the fuss is about. Saw him in an interview and he seems really patronising and like he thinks he's better than everyone else. He just bugs me. Can't put my finger on it but I just don't like the guy. Don't get what all the fuss is about, I can name so many more actors who are far more talented who worked just as hard to get where he is".

None of the comments above about Tom Cruise would warrant being vilified (in general) as it's taken as just an opinion. But when the same is said about JKR, it's turned into something much much bigger, like you're incredibly wrong and awful to dislike such a person and that you should disregard all of those opinions because "Look at all the good she's done!".

It's not a perfect comparison by any means, but JKR is definitely seen as a massive hero, to the point that if you don't like her for whatever reason, you're insane, anti-feminist, what's wrong with you etc when for some, it's the same as disliking Tom Cruise cause he bugs the hell out of you.