To not let DC go to this party. Trigger warning DV

[peacelikeariver]

Sorry I don't know if trigger warning for DV is the done thing, so thought I'd better put it in. Haven't been on Mumsnet for a while.
DC has told me today that her friend had disclosed to her that her mum's partner had strangled her mum in front of her. DC didn't know when this had happened and also said she thought her friend hadn't told anyone else in school.
I decided to call the school, got a call back from the head(it's a very small school). They were already aware of it and have involved all the necessary people. It seems to have happened a few days ago.
My dilemma is this: DC is invited to a party at this friend's place this weekend. I don't know the mum other than seeing her at the school gates. Kids are around 9.
I am now reluctant to send DC to the party. Between the lines, I think the partner was thrown out but who knows. Obviously the school can't tell me anything.
I feel awful for the mum and child but also feel it is a risk to my child.
I was thinking to say DC is sick and then invite friend to our house at a later time and DC can give the friend her present in school next week.

Would that be unreasonable?

Please it was a FEW days ago, the op is not saying they can’t ever be friends but why would you send your child to someone’s house where the mum was strangled in front of their one child a couple of days ago!

@AlternativePerspective if lying to her child about why she couldn't go there meant that she could potentially save her from viewing abuse or even worse, being abused by this man then yes lie your backside off. I can say all this from experience so that's why i say it. When she brought her daughter into this world her job was to protect her, not someone else's child. It's a harsh thing to say but it's the truth. They now say viewing domestic violence can actually do more damage than being the one being abused. You could send her op and it go brilliantly and your daughter has a great time as well as her friend which would be great. But we don't live in a world of fair tales and we have to be realistic. Bad things happen and they can happen to anyone.

@AlternativePerspective

So how do people propose the OP tell her child that she’s no longer allowed to go to the party?

Obviously the OP will have to lie to her if she doesn’t want the child to go back and repeat to her friend that her mummy said she can’t go because her stepdad hurt her mum.

Well so far I have just told her that I'm not sure what to do and that I don't want her friend to feel bad but I'm concerned. She knows what happened is a very bad thing, she is worried about her friend. I told her that the teacher already knew about it and she seemed reassured by that. She has come to me to talk about it several times this evening. Also if I decide not to send her I would tell her why and say we don't want to hurt her friends feelings so maybe we will say something else(yes, lie) but invite her another time. I think she would understand that.

@insanemumof3

Please OP do not send your child. I am 27 years of age and now having to receive counselling as I witnessed my step father beat my mum to a pulp on a daily basis. The trauma of witnessing it as a young child has messed my brain up in ways I couldn't even describe but is only affecting me severely now I have my children around the same age as I was when I witnessed it all. Don't take the chance, a domestic abuser does not think logically or rashionally.

Really sorry to hear what has happened to you as a child, but no one is suggesting sending OPs d's to witness that. Did your SF beat your mum up in front of your friens/ other adults?

@RedHelenB actually they are. When they say id send her they are saying that knowing there's a chance this abuser could be there. He did it in front of whoever he wanted he didn't care.

I personally wouldn't allow my child to go, my child's safety is more important than the feelings of their friends and I know so will judge me for that. One of the most dangerous times for a DV victim is in the time immediately after separation which I gather from your post was a matter of days ago, who can say he wouldn't choose that party day to show up to show he can still control her or ruin her life when she tries to act like all is normal and get on with things. If the party was in a hall or cinema etc that would be different but I wouldn't allow my child to attend a home where I am aware there is domestic violence especially if I wasn't able to attend.

Some will judge not so

Also if I decide not to send her I would tell her why and say we don't want to hurt her friends feelings so maybe we will say something else(yes, lie) but invite her another time. I think she would understand that. Tbh I think you’re being naive here. The reality is that children talk a lot more honestly to each other than their parents think, so even if you tell her that she shouldn’t say something it’s highly unlikely that she will, even if it’s “my mum said I shouldn’t tell you that it’s because of what happened to your mum,”

@AlternativePerspective

Also if I decide not to send her I would tell her why and say we don't want to hurt her friends feelings so maybe we will say something else(yes, lie) but invite her another time. I think she would understand that. Tbh I think you’re being naive here. The reality is that children talk a lot more honestly to each other than their parents think, so even if you tell her that she shouldn’t say something it’s highly unlikely that she will, even if it’s “my mum said I shouldn’t tell you that it’s because of what happened to your mum,”

Yes I appreciate that. May well be.

To be honest DC reaction this evening is enough to not send her.
She keeps coming to me and wants to cuddle and then she talks a bit about it. Then she wanders off again and comes back a few minutes later.
This is not something that was ever in her frame of reference at all.

@AlternativePerspective

No it is. Saying she must stop the friendship because the father might come to her house is terrible, awful advice that is completely lacking in common sense, empathy and the ability to sensibly understand risk. except that’s not what I said at all.

The reality though is that if people are telling the OP to keep her child away from this child because of the risk to her, then those people are essentially saying that the OP needs to stop the friendship between these two children.

If the OP deems her child to be at risk, then she is at risk wherever she comes into contact with this child.

Posters are also advising the OP to essentially isolate this child from her’s by banning her child from the party.

Victims of domestic violence are often isolated because of this attitude that other people don’t want it anywhere near them and theirs.

There is not an ounce of empathy on this thread from posters telling the OP that her child comes first and if that means banning her from the friend’s house then that’s just unfortunate.

When people tell posters to essentially isolate victims like this they need to think through the wider implications of what they’re actually telling them.

That’s not it, one of the most dangerous times for a DV relationship is when the abused part ends it. I never said she must never play with the other child but wait until OP know for sure the abuser is gone.

@AlternativePerspective I have empathy for the other mum and her child but OP posted asking about her own DD and whether people think it’s safe for her to attend this particular party. This woman and her child should focus on getting therapy and dealing with the trauma, sweeping it under the rug for a birthday party is not going to help her daughter.

Could you call the mum, ask if she's ok and offer to host?

[quote insanemumof3]@RedHelenB actually they are. When they say id send her they are saying that knowing there's a chance this abuser could be there. He did it in front of whoever he wanted he didn't care.[/quote]
This. @insanemumof3 I’m sorry this happened to you. I also know from experience (and science agrees now) that witnessing abuse is just as harmful and even more, for children, due to their helplessness, it’s extremely traumatic. You obviously have cPTSD, I’m very sorry you went through this. Some of these posts seem to be just emotionally blackmail to the OP, very odd. Perhaps many are naive as they haven’t gone through this kind of trauma themselves. It’s always best to err on the side of caution, I would think. But many think that’s unreasonable 😕

@AutomaticMoon I couldn't agree with you more. Caution is the best way forward regarding it! My counsellor says I have ptsd, it is what it is and I have to live with the actions of that man.

My caveat here is that I'm extremely rural, and always have been. So perhaps that lends a different world.

I cannot imagine a situation here where a child until high school, so 13 went to a party where I didn't know the parents.

That's normal.

For goodness sake just speak to the mum, either lie or don't but just say I don't leave Dd at parties. Is that ok? Or say Dd has told me X y z, I would like to stay are you ok.

I do understand it's different elsewhere.

I’d be cautious given it was so recent, just because it wouldn’t be that unusual, even if a partner had be asked to leave the home, for them to turn up angry a few days later.

I’m not sure what the right way to address it is, without it being awkward, someone being upset or you being uncomfortable.

Does your daughter actually still want to go, or is she scared ?

This is a difficult situation and I appreciate your dilemma.

I have more knowledge of family harm than I wish 😞

Thank goodness for children's honesty.

But two huge red flags.

1. You don't know if he is around
2. Birthdays are exactly the sort of occasion that abusers tend to ruin. Even if he has left, it would be predictable that he would see a party as a time to show up.

I would reach out to the mother. She has been through hell and is likely very isolated (as previous posters have explained)

Be honest, tell her you are aware of what has happened, you are incredibly sorry and that you want her to know you'd like to support her if you can.

Refuges are full of women who have been beaten, and systematically isolated. They have lost contact with family and long lost touch with friends. They blame themselves for the abuse and feel deeply ashamed and judged.

At this point I would try to be brave, and very sensitive, and say your daughter is excited about the party and you very much want her to go. Say your only reservation is that the ex may be there.

Then listen.

Yes it's a difficult conversation but it's the right thing to do.

@sweetbellyhigh

What a lovely suggestion.
I’m sure the last thing the other child’s mum wants is for something bad to happen or other children to witness abuse in her home. She will want to do everything to make it a safe happy time too.

@Whatinthelord
She early isn't able to stop the abuse as was In full example when the man srangled her infront of her child. Be realistic! What she may want to do and what she can and will do are very different

I wouldn’t send my dc to the party. I think your alternative is perfect and not particularly unusual. Often close friends who can’t make a party organise a play date later.

Over the years my dc have been friends with dc with various home issues including dv, a day-drinking dm, and another dm with wildly different safety standards than mine. We had play dates at ours instead and sometimes the dms came in for coffee and a chat afterwards or stayed on for tea. There’s lots if scope for being friendly, supportive and supporting the dc’ friendships. But I wouldn’t send my dc into a situation that felt unsafe.

The period when a woman leaves an abuser is particularly dangerous. And it takes, on average, seven times for a woman to leave permanently (that statistic probably doesn’t include the women who are murdered trying). Trauma bonding is powerful and it’s perfectly possible that she might take her partner back.

I would invent an excuse for your dd so that she doesn’t feel responsible for missing her df’s party - it’s too much responsibility for her to carry and she could hesitate to tell you something next time. Just find an alternative commitment. There’s a good chance that she might get upset at missing the party but this one is a decision for an adult to make.

I think your instincts are right on this one, don’t let her go. I’m not sure how you can confirm that the partner won’t be there or show up. You don’t know the mum well and can’t really get reliable details.

I witnessed something nasty happen at a friends when I was young and I never wanted to go back there. I wouldn’t put my child in a situation where I thought there was even a small possibility they could experience and kind of violence.

Do something nice with the friend separately, explain to your child why they can’t go. I wouldn’t tell them to lie to their friend but that it would be kinder not to go talk about this with others because it might hurt their friends feelings.

It’s a super tricky one to navigate but ultimately you have to prioritise your child and their emotional and physical safety.

[quote insanemumof3]@Whatinthelord
She early isn't able to stop the abuse as was In full example when the man srangled her infront of her child. Be realistic! What she may want to do and what she can and will do are very different[/quote]
I never said she could stop the abuse. I said she won’t want other children experiencing the abuse too. She’ll want them to be happy and safe.

We have no idea what has happened since the DVD’s incident and at least having a conversation opens up a dialogue between the mums and the possibility there might be an an arrangement that everyone is happy with - eg she takes them to cinema dinner out rather than apart at home or she might choose to postpone the party for another time and her daughter could come to her friends house etc.

[quote insanemumof3]@AutomaticMoon I couldn't agree with you more. Caution is the best way forward regarding it! My counsellor says I have ptsd, it is what it is and I have to live with the actions of that man.[/quote]
You should look into cPTSD, PTSD is usually from a single traumatic event but complex ptsd is from many events over a long period of time. The treatments they use for PTSD can make cPTSD worse 😞 I hope you can get good quality help, it’s intolerable how one awful man can cause damage spanning so far into the future and the fact that society just expects people to get on with it like nothing happened seems to compound the trauma.

@deeplyrooted

I wouldn’t send my dc to the party. I think your alternative is perfect and not particularly unusual. Often close friends who can’t make a party organise a play date later.

Over the years my dc have been friends with dc with various home issues including dv, a day-drinking dm, and another dm with wildly different safety standards than mine. We had play dates at ours instead and sometimes the dms came in for coffee and a chat afterwards or stayed on for tea. There’s lots if scope for being friendly, supportive and supporting the dc’ friendships. But I wouldn’t send my dc into a situation that felt unsafe.

The period when a woman leaves an abuser is particularly dangerous. And it takes, on average, seven times for a woman to leave permanently (that statistic probably doesn’t include the women who are murdered trying). Trauma bonding is powerful and it’s perfectly possible that she might take her partner back.

I would invent an excuse for your dd so that she doesn’t feel responsible for missing her df’s party - it’s too much responsibility for her to carry and she could hesitate to tell you something next time. Just find an alternative commitment. There’s a good chance that she might get upset at missing the party but this one is a decision for an adult to make.

This is a good idea actually- find another commitment that trumps the party so your dc isn’t in a tricky situation or having to lie.

@Peasandcabbage

My caveat here is that I'm extremely rural, and always have been. So perhaps that lends a different world.

I cannot imagine a situation here where a child until high school, so 13 went to a party where I didn't know the parents.

That's normal.

For goodness sake just speak to the mum, either lie or don't but just say I don't leave Dd at parties. Is that ok? Or say Dd has told me X y z, I would like to stay are you ok.

I do understand it's different elsewhere.

To be fair I've been thinking about this. The child just asked the mum outside the school if my child could come to her birthday, so it was 'yes sure, of course!' all round and a bit surprising. We aren't in the UK anymore and here children have a ton more 'freedom' (nobody bats an eye at 6 year olds going to and from school alone, staying home alone, playing out etc) By local standards I'm actually insanely overprotective.