To think doubling the price will mean the group closes?

[NotMuchNotice]

A small problem granted but I'm wondering if it's reasonable to think this is exactly what will happen?

I've attended a toddler group with my child since last September when it started running. It's held in community building so doesn't actually cost those running it anything for the space and they have been fortunate to get lots of toys and resources donated however despite this I appreciate there is the cost of the time given by those volunteering to run the group.

The group costs £2.50 per child and whilst lovely it's never been exceptionally popular, most weeks they have between 10-15 people. This is likely because it's quite a deprived area and there are many groups here that run for free or a very nominal donation supported by lottery funding or local support services. This group is probably one of the most expensive of its type in the area but I like the atmosphere, those running it are lovely and so I've no problem paying.

However this morning out of the blue we've received an email saying the price is doubling to £5 per child starting immediately with tomorrow's session. I really want to support the group and to help it keep running but am really surprised at such a huge increase in price and can't help feeling that this is going to mean tomorrow's group is probably going to be the last one. Am I being pessimistic or would you feel the same?

Whether the area is socially deprived or not doesnt effect the running costs of the group, and as we both keep saying, prices are increasing across the board. It's either viable or it's not, the church is either able to continue subsidising it, or it isnt but that prices are increasing, no I dont find that surprising at all.

affect sorry

Thats more than soft play :O

my local group was 50p per person and per child and have just increased to £1.50 PP which i think is fair. my local soft play is £4.50 per child under 10 and my local HUGE soft paly is £5.80 per child or £3 for under 4s

Whether the area is socially deprived or not doesnt effect the running costs of the group

Of course the group being in such an area doesn't affect how much it costs to run the group but it will obviously impact in how much they can reasonably charge.

The fact they have emailed to sya they have changed their minds does leave me wondering if the amount they were asking was to cover necessary costs or with a view to making a profit as like others have pointed out surely if they needed to increase the price sue to rising costs they couldn't then change their minds a few hours later? As you've said the costs are the costs.

YANBU. I live in a relatively affluent area in the South East.

£5 is the cost of a proper kids session, like a dance group or a franchise music group.

It's £2.50 for our local toddler groups (and probably free for those who genuinely can't afford it).

The volunteers don't get paid - otherwise they'd be employees. The money is literally to cover the materials, teas and biscuits.

£5 is excessive and I'd not go. It would also definitely put off people with twins or siblings

Well to be fair, they might have felt that £5 week was enough to run the group comfortably but now they've realised that they'll use too many members they've decided they can manage short term on £3.50 whikst they think of other fundraising plans. Or maybe they had plans yo purchase some new equipment that they have now abandoned. Who knows?
I think you'd be reasonable to ask for a justification for the increase, and the lack of transparency would bother me too. I don't know what rules apply to toddler groups but I'd expect any not for profit organisation to have a committee and a constitution, to protect the people running it as well as the users.

I run a toddler group from a community building and of course we have to pay to hire it, its £25 per session, we charge £2.50 per child which includes a snack, cup of tea and a biscuit, and croft materials, we make enough to cover costs only.
£5 per child is very expensive, I have been to one that cost that much before, it was never busy and didn't last very long, itsntoo much.

Could it be that in the past there were no hire fees for church hall but now with electricity going up and cleaning cost due to Covid the group leaders have been told they have to pay to hire hall? 100 percent increase seems unlikely otherwise. I would probably pay it if my child liked to go and there were a few free places for tots who's parents were on benefits. It will just depend on people's budgets. I paid £1 a session 25 years ago for just a tea/coffee and biscuit.

@Porcupineintherough

Whether the area is socially deprived or not doesnt effect the running costs of the group, and as we both keep saying, prices are increasing across the board. It's either viable or it's not, the church is either able to continue subsidising it, or it isnt but that prices are increasing, no I dont find that surprising at all.

Most often it can actually. Churches for example can access funding pots so can offer free of low cost access.

The demographic of the area can have a direct impact on the costs.

@NotMuchNotice

Whether the area is socially deprived or not doesnt effect the running costs of the group

Of course the group being in such an area doesn't affect how much it costs to run the group but it will obviously impact in how much they can reasonably charge.

The fact they have emailed to sya they have changed their minds does leave me wondering if the amount they were asking was to cover necessary costs or with a view to making a profit as like others have pointed out surely if they needed to increase the price sue to rising costs they couldn't then change their minds a few hours later? As you've said the costs are the costs.

Charities don't make profits.

Nope no committee or anything like that.

That’s interesting. Who runs it? Is it a parent or someone from the church? Are there no meetings? No annual “please can someone be the treasurer because Maureen’s kids are now in their 20s and she really wants to give up?” type things?

That’s very odd because if they are a group in their own right there should be a trail - policies, checks, accounts and the likes.
If they are part of the church then that should also be very clear so you know what part, if any, of the fee is going to the church (be it hall hire or otherwise).

@MrsAvocet Volunteer groups don’t pay for DBS checks.

Churches for example can access funding pots so can offer free of low cost access.

Tell me more!

@CraftyGin Charities don't make profits

Who said anything about them being a charity?

Getting grants for generic toddler groups even in deprived areas is no longer as easy as it once was.

Who said anything about them being a charity?

I don't know a church that isn't.

My DM used to volunteer at her church and make tea/coffee for adults once one week and twice the following week. She always made her own biscuits to take so shortbread or cookies and she sometimes did the story corner too. She did this until she was 80. She loved to do it and said it kept her young. She did it for so many years that she recalled reading stories to the parents when they were tots. If there are volunteers to run things and set up/pack away then cost can stay lower. They had a book exchange for parents running too.

@CraftyGin

Who said anything about them being a charity?

I don't know a church that isn't.

I must have misread as I thought the post you commented on was referring to the group rather than the church.

The OP hasn’t said that the group is run by the church

That’s interesting. Who runs it? Is it a parent or someone from the church? Are there no meetings? No annual “please can someone be the treasurer because Maureen’s kids are now in their 20s and she really wants to give up?” type things?

It's run by a few people only one of whom I believe is linked to the church and to the best of my knowledge there are no meetings and no committee.

@NotMuchNotice

Whether the area is socially deprived or not doesnt effect the running costs of the group

Of course the group being in such an area doesn't affect how much it costs to run the group but it will obviously impact in how much they can reasonably charge.

The fact they have emailed to sya they have changed their minds does leave me wondering if the amount they were asking was to cover necessary costs or with a view to making a profit as like others have pointed out surely if they needed to increase the price sue to rising costs they couldn't then change their minds a few hours later? As you've said the costs are the costs.

Or it means, as often happens, that the volunteers are dipping into their own pockets and subsidising the group even more.

@NotMuchNotice I wonder how often you buy your child a snack when out or an equivalent of a Happy Meal? Does that not cost a similar amount?

Let's face it, if there was such an amazing free group that met your needs, with your sentiments, you'd be going to it surely? So this group obviously offers something that warrants the money.

But now the price is reduced, I presume that you'll be volunteering to run and steer the group in the right way, putting your money where your mouth is, so to speak?

I must have misread as I thought the post you commented on was referring to the group rather than the church.

The OP hasn’t said that the group is run by the church

The OP said the space was cost-free, so I would conclude that it's a church ministry.

@NotMuchNotice

That’s interesting. Who runs it? Is it a parent or someone from the church? Are there no meetings? No annual “please can someone be the treasurer because Maureen’s kids are now in their 20s and she really wants to give up?” type things?

It's run by a few people only one of whom I believe is linked to the church and to the best of my knowledge there are no meetings and no committee.

If it’s not run by the church then there should be a committee and a constitution. There should be insurance, accounts, policies and paper trails.

If it is run by the church it may come under their policies and the likes, but there should be details on stuff.

That’s maybe why there’s no talk of accessing funding despite the deprived area - you need to have proper paperwork and setup to access the vast majority.

@CraftyGin

I must have misread as I thought the post you commented on was referring to the group rather than the church.

The OP hasn’t said that the group is run by the church

The OP said the space was cost-free, so I would conclude that it's a church ministry.

Ah. That assumption explains the charity comment.

Fair enough.

@JustLyra its actually really quite difficult to find Grant's that cover things like day to day running costs, room hire etc. Grants for equipment yes, for repairing the roof possibly but for subsidising a toddler group? Well you name some because I know many who'd be interested.

[quote Porcupineintherough]@JustLyra its actually really quite difficult to find Grant's that cover things like day to day running costs, room hire etc. Grants for equipment yes, for repairing the roof possibly but for subsidising a toddler group? Well you name some because I know many who'd be interested.[/quote]
I’d have to go through the list as we haven’t run toddlers for the last 12 months, but off the top of my head Lottery, Children in need (their programme is current changing though, which is a shame as they were excellent for training costs), Tesco, Greggs, the Rowntree foundation can be hit and miss depending on your area.

They all have grants to the toddler group, as well as the before and after school club and playscheme, I chaired.