To think doubling the price will mean the group closes?

[NotMuchNotice]

A small problem granted but I'm wondering if it's reasonable to think this is exactly what will happen?

I've attended a toddler group with my child since last September when it started running. It's held in community building so doesn't actually cost those running it anything for the space and they have been fortunate to get lots of toys and resources donated however despite this I appreciate there is the cost of the time given by those volunteering to run the group.

The group costs £2.50 per child and whilst lovely it's never been exceptionally popular, most weeks they have between 10-15 people. This is likely because it's quite a deprived area and there are many groups here that run for free or a very nominal donation supported by lottery funding or local support services. This group is probably one of the most expensive of its type in the area but I like the atmosphere, those running it are lovely and so I've no problem paying.

However this morning out of the blue we've received an email saying the price is doubling to £5 per child starting immediately with tomorrow's session. I really want to support the group and to help it keep running but am really surprised at such a huge increase in price and can't help feeling that this is going to mean tomorrow's group is probably going to be the last one. Am I being pessimistic or would you feel the same?

I have emailed to explain sadly we won't be attending due to the sudden increase in price.

I do hope I'm wrong and that the group is able to continue but I'm sceptical and do feel like they would have been much better to consider other approaches. I wpuld happily have provided snacks on a rota, volunteered to help set up or clear away etc but paying 20 quid a month to sit in a church hall for a few hours doesn't seem sensible sadly.

Our local group is all volunteer and not for profit. It is very much a community thing.
It's £2 per child and £1 for an additional child.

As it is ongoing and nothing ever gets booked up on a weekday morning anyway they have been given a very good rate for the local village hall. There's always tea/coffee and a biscuit for adults and toast, drink and the occasional extra snack for the kids. They do singing at the end and everyone mucks in at set up/tidy up time and also some of the mums help with toast/food prep.
They even buy some books for the kids at Christmas time and have a volunteer santa that comes in for singing and hands them out on the day.
They make enough money that they just spent some of the build up on some more toys for the group.
£5 is very steep IMO - is it a volunteer thing or are they looking to profit from it?

You need an explanation for the rise in costs. The church may be free but the playgroup may have to contribute to running costs and the volunteers may get their travel expenses paid.

I think I paid about £2.50 and tea/coffee was on top for one in a community centre. One in a church hall was cheaper and Sure Start was £1.

£5 would have gotten us into a local soft play who weren’t too fussy how long you stayed.

Well great then OP - you can make sure that group doesn’t fold by taking on running it yourself at £2.50!!!!!

@JustLyra

I did have a feeling that they were free but didn’t know if that only registered charities. If it’s only a couple of volunteers and 10 mothers they might not bother going down the official routes (community centre/church could be asking for this now?) but then again if they’re not formally registered might not bother with DBS at all.

I used to volunteer for a youth group, due to work I couldn’t be reliable for every week. I decided to spend my time applying to businesses/councils for grants. I sent an email to the local Tesco outreach asking for donated supplies and was sent a £45 voucher immediately.

@FFSFFSFFS

Well great then OP - you can make sure that group doesn’t fold by taking on running it yourself at £2.50!!!!!

I would be completely happy to help run the group. I suspect it wouldn't help though as then I wouldn't be paying to attend.

Is it down to cleaning costs cos of covid? It could also be that the hall hire is free, but they're now being asked to contribute to energy bills. I agree they should given an explanation.

I used to go to a networking group which was £5 a head. It was increased to £10 a head but the organiser explained why.

Well you won’t know until you try will you? You’ve taken the position that it is just unresonable
What they’ve done but then appear to be saying that it is reasonable because if you don’t pay they won’t be able to afford to continue?

My point is that women get exploited from all directions when it comes to child care and child
Related activities. It is disappointing that you and so many others are happy to fork out money to soft play centres (where I would be willing to bet a huge portion of the profits go to men) but not for women giving up there time for free.

I bet it’s run all by women yes? It says a lot about how womens time and energy is valued doesn’t it?
Yes, it probably is run by women, I haven't been to one that hasn't. I disagree about it saying a lot about how womens time and energy is valued. If they are volunteers they wouldn't get paid. However as this toddler group us in a deprieved area people aren't suddenly going to come up with double the money for the activity. People are worrying about fuel Bill's, food Bill's. The first to stop will be extra activities that they can get by without. This issueisnt about women not being valued.

But my point is @notacooldad is that many people
Are saying they WOULD pay that for soft play etc

I used to run a toddler/pre-schooler group in a village near where we used to live I sort of inherited it from a previous organiser who moved away. It was held in the parish hall, but we absolutely had to pay to use the space from the parish council's POV, we were taking up a popular morning slot which they could have allocated to one of the yoga/crafts etc groups to which they charged higher rates, and also using heating and electricity and causing wear and tear on chairs etc -- so they felt they were doing us a favour by charging us the lower rate for non-profit-making activities.

Toys were donated, but we had to pay an additional annual storage fee to keep the toys in a shelved room off the hall.

We had to pay for our own tea, coffee, milk and sugar, and to provide a biscuit or other snack for the children in practice, usually I baked a cake for adults attending and we also had to renew the regular basic craft supplies, like crayons and paper. We also had to pay an additional fee to use the kitchen facilities, including the use of cups.

I can't remember how much we charged, as this is a while ago now, but it would have been £2 or so, and we ran at a slight annual loss. There were always people who either didn't pay or just threw in some loose change rather than the full amount, and it was difficult to police unless you actually had someone sitting on the door, and we didn't have enough people.

When DS went to school, I handed on to someone else, and it closed down within a year.

Our Church didn't t charge hall hire usuage but an annual donation was required. It was suggested x amount dependent on time and facilities used. So it would go up slightly every year.

Which is an overlong way of saying that what may look as if it's free provision of room etc may not be. I was certainly taken aback by running costs, because I had also assumed the parish council would offer the hall for free or at a token cost to a non-profit-making gathering of babies, pre-schoolers and their parents.

Well you won’t know until you try will you? You’ve taken the position that it is just unresonable
What they’ve done but then appear to be saying that it is reasonable because if you don’t pay they won’t be able to afford to continue?

I do think it's unreasonable to suddenly double the price with a days notice yes. I also think sadly no matter what help I provide the group will close as the area demographic cannot afford it.

No matter how much I want the group to continue the price increase means many many people here won't be able to attend. I could stretch and cover it but that's not going to help if I'm in a small minority doing so. Us paying double isn't going to help if the majority no longer attend because they cannot afford it.

For a stay and play around here (average greater London suburb), it's around £2/£3 from babies upward, sometimes a sibling discount. That would provide a tea for adult or a snack for child. Normally done through church halls etc and run by volunteers. Most have shut down though since covid. Activity groups /softplay / trampolining etc are approx £10 upwards (have to pay adult accompanying fee for softplay). The ones less than a tenner don't have anything different to stay and play groups.

No matter how much I want the group to continue the price increase means many many people here won't be able to attend. I could stretch and cover it but that's not going to help if I'm in a small minority doing so. Us paying double isn't going to help if the majority no longer attend because they cannot afford it

It's a shame that the price has doubled, and I can understand the frustration at the short notice, but if the group is running at a loss, which it may well be, then perhaps there's not choice. Yes, it may be that this means it will close, but volunteers may be fed up subsidising a group out of their own pocket, as well as giving up their time.

If you are saying you are happy to help run the group, why not offer to look into local grants, or set up a fundraising committee. Then perhaps the group won't need to increase prices

[quote Purplependant222]@JustLyra

I did have a feeling that they were free but didn’t know if that only registered charities. If it’s only a couple of volunteers and 10 mothers they might not bother going down the official routes (community centre/church could be asking for this now?) but then again if they’re not formally registered might not bother with DBS at all.

I used to volunteer for a youth group, due to work I couldn’t be reliable for every week. I decided to spend my time applying to businesses/councils for grants. I sent an email to the local Tesco outreach asking for donated supplies and was sent a £45 voucher immediately.[/quote]
The need for DBS will mostly depend on the demographic and the role the organisers take. They have cracked down on unnecessary ones in the last few years - and not before time. In an area with deprivation and vulnerable families it’s likely they would be though, if it was run through proper channels.

It is amazing what’s out there when you have the time to look. Local companies are often great for supplies.
Tesco and Greggs are particular generous with their grants.

Also, if you can drum up enough helpers a bag packing afternoon at Tesco or the likes can be very lucrative.

1. They absolutely will have to pay a charge to hire the hall, and probably much higher than you realise.

1. Lots of other costs, eg insurance which are compulsory for all voluntary groups.

1. At all these groups even the volunteers pay to attend as well.

The number of people staying that they categorically will be paying a hall fee is amusing.

They might be. The OP is the one attending so knows the hall and it’s set up better than we all do.

Of the three groups I chair, and other two that I attend, two pay, one pays a reduced rate and two pay nothing. It’s not set in stone that they pay at all.

I've got to admit I wouldn't pay it.

My toddler group in the village hall is completely free. I think the church covers everything...they won't take our money!

This includes volunteers, tea, coffee and biscuits for parents, toast, water and fruit for toddlers.

Not sure I'd pay a fiver. Our local softplay does 'toddler time' for £4.95 on a Friday which includes squash and toast and a 2hr play session. We are comfortably off too, but I still like value for money.

I'm really surprised that you are still able to have no fee.

All the groups I have run now and in the past, even ones that used to be free to hire, have had significant increase in rent over the last decade as councils try and claw back money from austerity cuts.

The local council have recently announced a tenfold increase in the hall hire fee, and therefore another group is going to have to shut.

The sudden doubling of fees suggests that s rent increase is highly likely as a reason

I wouldn’t pay £5 for a generic toddler group. That’s around what I pay per session for specialised courses (baby sign, massage, etc.).

How good is the tuff tray set up and sensory room? If they have themes and/or really interesting set ups that I thought would be good for LO I might go. If not, it would be cheaper to meet friends at a local soft play.

It's probably a knock on from general increases being experienced for heating etc. and insurance premiums for public liability cover.
The venue will have to cover these and my have had to pass it on to the attending groups using the facility.

This is a perfect example of why running voluntary community groups is such a thankless task. Everyone feels entitled to complain but has no motivation to get involved.

And fwiw most Church halls charge for hire even to people involved in the Church because tbh they are the people who tend to use Church halls.