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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think doubling the price will mean the group closes?

218 replies

NotMuchNotice · 03/02/2022 09:56

A small problem granted but I'm wondering if it's reasonable to think this is exactly what will happen?

I've attended a toddler group with my child since last September when it started running. It's held in community building so doesn't actually cost those running it anything for the space and they have been fortunate to get lots of toys and resources donated however despite this I appreciate there is the cost of the time given by those volunteering to run the group.

The group costs £2.50 per child and whilst lovely it's never been exceptionally popular, most weeks they have between 10-15 people. This is likely because it's quite a deprived area and there are many groups here that run for free or a very nominal donation supported by lottery funding or local support services. This group is probably one of the most expensive of its type in the area but I like the atmosphere, those running it are lovely and so I've no problem paying.

However this morning out of the blue we've received an email saying the price is doubling to £5 per child starting immediately with tomorrow's session. I really want to support the group and to help it keep running but am really surprised at such a huge increase in price and can't help feeling that this is going to mean tomorrow's group is probably going to be the last one. Am I being pessimistic or would you feel the same?

OP posts:
maddening · 03/02/2022 13:00

What does it cost them to run? If they are paying themselves as staff then they are a business, but it sounds like they are running it as a voluntary group, so don't understand what costs are if the building and volunteers are free?

Monopolyiscrap · 03/02/2022 13:00

This is why many generic toddler groups have closed. Councils rarely see them as a priority to subsidise and think they should be self-funding.

shouldistop · 03/02/2022 13:01

The most expensive toddler group round here is £3, this is a wealthy area and the group pay rent to the council for the hall.
I wouldn't pay £5

DockOTheBay · 03/02/2022 13:01

@britneyisfree

I wish I could find a toddler group for so cheap. The one we go to is £7.50 for 45 mins!
Is that a toddler group (volunteer run, usually in a community hall or church hall, kids run around with toys and maybe have a cup of tea and a biscuit) or a baby class such as baby sensory (business, structured session, led by a paid person)

I wouldn't pay £2.50 for a toddler group, let alone £5. I would pay around £5 for a baby class.

Monopolyiscrap · 03/02/2022 13:02

@ADisgruntledPelican I agree. I shared the cost of running a group as a volunteer because of this. People were particularly surprised about how much it costs to hire a hall.

Chillyjam · 03/02/2022 13:03

The toddler group I take dd to doubled in price, it went from 50p - £1. It does seem they are pricing lots of people out.

Original poster
NotMuchNotice · 03/02/2022 13:05

This is a perfect example of why running voluntary community groups is such a thankless task. Everyone feels entitled to complain but has no motivation to get involved.

I am happy to get involved though. I'd be more than happy to offer to help and have told them so in the past. I'm honestly not complaining because I have a want want want attitude. I just don't want them to close and feel this is inevitable given the rise in cost and the area we live.

OP posts:
DockOTheBay · 03/02/2022 13:06

The local halls around here are £25 per hour to hire. If a toddler group is on for 3 hours they need an hour to setup and an hour to pack down, so 4-5 hours. £100-£125 just for hall hire. Plus tea, coffee, milk, sugar, juice, snacks -maybe £10. Plus outlay on toys, books, craft materials etc. Then a team of volunteers to run it.

I think your numbers are way out. Most toddler groups run for 1.5 hours, including packing up time, not 3. So maybe they hire the hall for 2 hours. Even at £25 an hour it'd not going to be £125 for hall rent. Around here, hall hire is more like £10-12 - I have looked at A LOT of halls recently for another purpose and this is the sort of cost.

Snacks unlikely to come to £10 a week for only 15 kids. 12 packs of raisins 89p in aldi, big packet of breadsticks or crackers 60p, maybe 4 cut up bananas would be 80p. A box of tea bags might be £4 but would last quite a few weeks, and 4 pints of milk is £1.

Hugasauras · 03/02/2022 13:06

That's v expensive. That's more than a soft play session at our local place.

We sometimes do a toddler group that is £3 but that includes snack bowl and juice for kids, tea and cake for adults, and the hire of the hall I imagine.

Monopolyiscrap · 03/02/2022 13:06

It probably will close.
And all the business groups will go up in price as heating bills increase as well.

Thirtytimesround · 03/02/2022 13:08

Wow that’s such a shame OP. Playgroups in church halls round here (smart SE town) are £1-£3 per family, for £5 you’d get a class led by a teacher who’s making a profit and paying for the hall.

Seems odd 🤷‍♀️ All you can do is ask for clarification, and offer to be a volunteer, but I guess if it’s about insurance/ electricity there may not be much to be done.

Such a shame, especially as playgroups don’t exactly use much electricity or make insurance claims! 😔

chinupoldchap · 03/02/2022 13:11

I agree with you op, it's about communication and recognising your demographic.
Fair enough everyone saying chip in and volunteer but surely that's the responsibility of the group organisers? If they knew there was going to be issues with staffing/ hall fees/ over heads they should've talked to the local council, charities or the parents.
Also it's normal to notify attendants that unfortunately because of ... the prices will need to increase.
If it is in a deprived area £5 is a lot! £20 a month in the current climate is much harder to find than £10.

EishetChayil · 03/02/2022 13:12

£5 is way too much. I run one and charge £1.

Monopolyiscrap · 03/02/2022 13:13

It sounds like the issue is low attendance though. So sad as it is, if not enough people want the group, it will close.

CraftyGin · 03/02/2022 13:16

They typically have a hoard of willing ladies they can recruit to volunteer.

ROFL Grin

WhatAWasteOfOranges · 03/02/2022 13:19

I run a group. It’s £2.50 per family (if able) but we do need that to run as have to pay hall costs/snack costs/tea etc
I don’t think it would work any higher than that and think cost should be per family not per child

CraftyGin · 03/02/2022 13:21

The building in question is a church.

Why should a church be free?

budgiegirl · 03/02/2022 13:26

I run a group. It’s £2.50 per family (if able) but we do need that to run as have to pay hall costs/snack costs/tea etc
I don’t think it would work any higher than that and think cost should be per family not per child

It doesn't really matter what cost other groups run at. The point is that for this group, £2.50 seems not to be enough to cover costs, otherwise they wouldn't need to put their prices up. I appreciate doubling the cost is a big jump, but perhaps that's the only way it can be cost effective. Although it will very likely mean that the group has to close.

WhatAWasteOfOranges · 03/02/2022 13:33

But there are other ways of running a group to cover costs, fundraisers, bake sales, local grants, working with the church etc
I just don’t think it’s realistic asking people to pay more than £2.50

Porcupineintherough · 03/02/2022 13:34

I think you are looking at this backwards. If the group cant cover it's running costs then yes it will have to close. It doesnt need to keep running at a loss just because.

If it closes then the space can be used for something else that does pay. And the volunteers can use their time towards something more sustainable.

Porcupineintherough · 03/02/2022 13:36

@WhatAWasteOfOranges

But there are other ways of running a group to cover costs, fundraisers, bake sales, local grants, working with the church etc I just don’t think it’s realistic asking people to pay more than £2.50
There are but they all involve more time and effort from the volunteers. Maybe they dont have more time to give?
Blondeshavemorefun · 03/02/2022 13:47

To double any price is a lot

Where £2 in one area or £5 in a richer area so £4 and £

Guess it’s what you are used to - m&t here in south east were £3 per child or £5 family

I haven’t bern to a m&t fir 2yr due to covid and now baby blondes a
Is at school

Tho soft play and other indoor activities are more or have to pay fir stuff as takes up a space and numbers limited

So was say £6 per child but now £4 but have to pay fir adult as well so £8

Why not say to the others in group that you know or like to set up a coffee am at yours and others each week

Each one host a week

3scape · 03/02/2022 13:52

Locally there are toddler groups that charge but they're quite clear it's a voluntary payment. I was always happy to pay (and would often pay with a note every few weeks to avoid change issues), but i remember once when I'd been discussing my ex leaving they kept discreetly reminding me I didn't have to pay, it turned out about half the group paid regularly, others were more as and when. Could it be less people than you think are paying?

CraftyGin · 03/02/2022 14:00

If things are too cheap, people don't value them.

Our M&T is very cheap (£2 per family) but it is a massive undertaking to put it together every week. We have to have a team to set up the room the night before (retired men, btw), as well as those who run it on the day and clear up. There's a lot of preparation, eg for the craft and to buy refreshments.

We charge per family, but then you get childminders who bring about 6 children. The nans that come do tend to voluntarily pay for the cousins separately, as they genuinely appreciate what they are getting.

Babies are not cost free - we have stock of nappies and wipes for emergencies and it's amazing how often they are used. They then leave the dirty nappies even though we ask for them to be taken home.

Churches have expenses and get nothing from the government or council. Income comes from stewardship or by letting their premises. Although churches are charities, mission budgets are spread across many areas, not just toddler groups.

AnnaBegins · 03/02/2022 14:06

Affluent countryside area here. The stay and play toddler groups charge £2 per family for a cuppa and biscuit and room hire, and the sling library's stay and play session with free sling help is £3 per family to cover cake and room hire. The toddler group is able to invest in new toys too from proceeds.

For £5, we could attend a half hour baby music class or 1 hr forest school type activity, or 1hr role play village thing, £5.50 for 1.5hrs baby gymnastics, for £7.50 45 mins baby sensory. So £5 for a playgroup would be in competition with these.

I hope some nicely worded emails about how much parents will miss the group, from a range of parents, will make them reconsider and maybe charge £3.