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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To hate a certain type of middle-class insult?

326 replies

AllThePogs · 02/02/2022 14:52

I am working class and grew up in a very rough area. If I am going to insult you, I will insult you. It is straightforward and you know where you stand.
But there is a certain kind of middle-class person who insults people using veiled language. I see it on MN all the time.
I can't stand it. It is a way to pretend to be polite and reasonable, while often throwing insults with a pretty vicious undertone.
And these people get away with it again and again.

OP posts:
Abhannmor · 02/02/2022 17:53

@educatingrati

I don't think it's anything to do with class. You get rude blunt people and rude passive aggressive and CF people in all social structures. Equally you get polite, pleasant, and helpful people in all social structures.
It's a lot to do with class. I first became aware of it on the school run when I heard a posh but impeccably socialist woman describe another woman as 'chippy '. Clever isn't it? If you disagree it's a sign that you too are 'chippy'.
captainmajor · 02/02/2022 17:53

I don't think it's a class thing as such , I think either the person using the quick put downs are so quick at coming back and at thinking them up and they slip out fast and easily or they use the set phrases so often in day to day that the phrase is already lined up for use before it's needed

longwayoff · 02/02/2022 17:58

Jane Clark, wife of Alan, said of the mother and daughters menage a trois with whom he engaged - and sold their story to a tabloid I think - "what can you expect when you associate with such below stairs people?". That is both absolute snobbery and fairly straightforward. I'm sure she did mean to be so rude,

AlDanvers · 02/02/2022 17:58

I think passive-aggressiveness makes people far more angry. People arent stupid, they know when they are being insulted

In which case, it's no worse than just clearly insulting someone, surely?

NatriumChloride · 02/02/2022 17:59

@MrsTerryPratchett

It's not classed based. Speaking as someone who is regularly insulted at work Grin there are a LOT of working class passive aggressive arseholes.

My theory is that PA behaviour comes from when your power and assertiveness isn't 'allowed'. So the prime culprits are people who have either culturally been prevented from actually speaking their minds (could be older women, trauma-impacted people, insecure men). I try to see it as a symptom of powerlessness. Those of us raised to speak our minds are lucky. We deal with it but don't have to live in their heads.

As always, another valuable insight. I couldn’t agree more, @MrsTerryPratchett
Thedogscollar · 02/02/2022 18:00

@notaclownfish
Love the Wilde quote Grin

When I referred to that saying I simply meant I will stand by what I believe to be right using plain and direct language.

I'm not one for hurling abusive language but I won't be insulted and not retaliate in a direct fashion.

Stravaig · 02/02/2022 18:01

Obviously all this negativity about bumbling and pottering is a passive-agressive insult aimed at me.

KarenTheGammonRemoaner · 02/02/2022 18:02

@AllThePogs

I am working class and grew up in a very rough area. If I am going to insult you, I will insult you. It is straightforward and you know where you stand. But there is a certain kind of middle-class person who insults people using veiled language. I see it on MN all the time. I can't stand it. It is a way to pretend to be polite and reasonable, while often throwing insults with a pretty vicious undertone. And these people get away with it again and again.
Everyone needs a hobby.
CheltenhamLady · 02/02/2022 18:02

[quote AllThePogs]@ChickenStripper why do you do that? Misquote me? I didn't as you imply insult older women by talking about bumbling around the house.
There is nothing wrong with bumbling about the house. It simply means being in the house and doing lots of small jobs at a relaxed pace. It is how my elderly mum spends her days. Perfectly fine. I was simply saying that I don't think it is good for someone to live their whole adult life doing that. And I was perfectly clear on this. There were no passive aggressive insults.[/quote]
It is dismissive of those who choose differently from you.

You may think it is perfectly fine, but it really isn't. I commented on it on the other thread as it was condescending. There was nothing passive-aggressive about my comments, they were direct and succinct.

Crystalvas · 02/02/2022 18:02

@Suzi888

It’s snobbery.
Its a public forum. People start a thread and others comment. Simple as that. If anyone dosn’t like whats posted they don’t have to comment. As for class thats just pure speculation as this forum is anomyous.
sanbeiji · 02/02/2022 18:03

OP you’re probably upset because you’re not linguistically gifted enough to reply in kind.
I luuurve PA insults, I give as good as I get.

crazyjinglist · 02/02/2022 18:04

@crazyjinglistyes you could get deleted for saying you sound horrible. And it leads to the obvious question of why does that person sound horrible i.e. justify your comment.

I really don't think you would get deleted for that. And as far as I'm aware, there's no rule saying you have to give a reason for thinking someone sounds horrible. It's often pretty apparent from their post what it is that makes them sound horrible.

So, OP, you commented a few dozen times on the housewife thread, saying the exact same thing and being extremely offensive about women who choose not to work. Other posters got fed up and told you so. You had no rebuttal, so started a whole new thread about the subtlety of middle class insults.

Hmmm. It's sounding as if the OP has a bit of a chip on their shoulder. 'I can insult people and express my annoyance however I like. Anyone who does so in different language to me is a raging snob.'

grapewine · 02/02/2022 18:04

@SoupDragon

I was far more nuanced and said people need challenges in their lives.

So, a passive aggressive insult about how you think their life is insufficient...? 😂

It's beautiful, really ...
SpongebobsPants · 02/02/2022 18:06

Oooh exciting. Another thread about class.

Sooo sooo sorry I wasn't here at the start ...

Momicrone · 02/02/2022 18:07

It's personality not class, I know some very direct and rude middle class peeps

SchadenfreudePersonified · 02/02/2022 18:08

I find it really bizarre when people wear the whole “I tell it like it is” as a badge of honour. In my experience these people are often just mannerless idiots

Very often (not saying you are one of them OP).

They say vile things and if anyone gets upset, or calls them out on it, then they get very affronted. 'It's just my way."

However, if anyone says anything to them, it's different. They can get as upset as they like - no-one else is allowed to have "a way" - only them. They're usually very thin-skinned and can dish it out but not take it.

I don't mind people being honest - I don't like rude, however it's dressed up.

PaddleBoardingMomma · 02/02/2022 18:08

Hmm I'll prepare for a flaming but to me, it just shows a different level of vocabulary use and control of anger/ annoyance, not class related. I there isn't anything wrong in using more polite language to get your point across, in my mind, anyway.

steff13 · 02/02/2022 18:08

[quote AllThePogs]@ChickenStripper why do you do that? Misquote me? I didn't as you imply insult older women by talking about bumbling around the house.
There is nothing wrong with bumbling about the house. It simply means being in the house and doing lots of small jobs at a relaxed pace. It is how my elderly mum spends her days. Perfectly fine. I was simply saying that I don't think it is good for someone to live their whole adult life doing that. And I was perfectly clear on this. There were no passive aggressive insults.[/quote]
Bumbling is generally considered an insult.

blyn72 · 02/02/2022 18:09

Recollections do differ. We all take away different impressions from any scenario.

PaddleBoardingMomma · 02/02/2022 18:09

Also agree that "I tell it as it is" isn't a badge of honour, it just tells me you have no tact and speak before you think most of the time.

RonCarlos · 02/02/2022 18:10

the prime culprits are people who have either culturally been prevented from actually speaking their minds (could be older women, trauma-impacted people, insecure men). I try to see it as a symptom of powerlessness. Those of us raised to speak our minds are lucky

Totally this. My MIL is nordic and she and DH are the first members of my family I have ever been able to say what I actually think to.

There is much unintended PA in the rest of my family as we try to second guess each other. My background is not middle class but my mother grew up in the 50s, so... I try not to inflict this on other people by lowering my expectations of Life but it's unavoidable with family.

You should feel sorry for us Smile

Herja · 02/02/2022 18:11

I'm not sure about class, but it's bloody infuriating. Passive aggressive behaviour when I've done nothing first leads to agressive agression from me. I'll accept it, while pointing out all the reasons I think they're a despicable cunt if I started it though. I find that agressive agression ends the passive agression pretty quickly, which is nice.

I don't appreciate the implication that I'm too thick to understand the insult with PA. I always understand and I think worse of the PA wanker for making that assumption. PA is either covering for knowing you shouldn't really be a wanker here - in which case, either don't be a wanker or don't try to find a way to squirm out of being the wanker you are, OR an additional view that you are intellectually superior to the person you are covertly insulting. Either way, its an added layer of shite that a straight up insult doesn't carry.

blyn72 · 02/02/2022 18:11

@blyn72

Recollections do differ. We all take away different impressions from any scenario.
Sorry, I meant to quote one of the op's posts before typing the above.

It is true though, I see things that others don't and regularly do not notice things that are obvious to many others.

Ohsugarhoneyicetea · 02/02/2022 18:14

You alright hun? Wink

Crystalvas · 02/02/2022 18:14

@Momicrone

It's personality not class, I know some very direct and rude middle class peeps
Exactly totally agree with this.