To hate a certain type of middle-class insult?

[AllThePogs]

I am working class and grew up in a very rough area. If I am going to insult you, I will insult you. It is straightforward and you know where you stand.
But there is a certain kind of middle-class person who insults people using veiled language. I see it on MN all the time.
I can't stand it. It is a way to pretend to be polite and reasonable, while often throwing insults with a pretty vicious undertone.
And these people get away with it again and again.

@sadpapercourtesan

I think the richness of our language and the ability to vary the level of directness of speech is one of life's great delights. I love frosty politeness, witty double meanings, skilful sarcasm, gently poking humour - it would be a terrible shame if we decided to dumb that down in favour of simple mud-slinging.

I don't think it is purely a class distinction, either. I am from a very working class Northern background and some of my family can be blisteringly rude without resorting to open insults. There is a class-bound, elitist humour steeped in snobbery and contempt, but it's not a binary choice between that and the spade brigade. There's a wealth of variety in between.

Love this.

I don't think it's anything to do with class. You get rude blunt people and rude passive aggressive and CF people in all social structures. Equally you get polite, pleasant, and helpful people in all social structures.

@TatianaBis It's not funny to be on the receiving end of it though, as the OP describes. Nor is it 'polite and refined' to create and entrench inequality in society - unless you're on top dishing it out, I suppose. That's just the propaganda we're sold. English 'politeness and refinement' in this context is actually just English abusiveness.

@notaclownfish I was reading the thread and hoping someone would break out some Wilde! 😂

Am I being thick, wasn’t the person who wrote “You sound delightful” taking the piss of the thread?

Incidentally is by far the best insult whatever class you are imho.

@MeSanniesareBrannies Wilde was a total arsehole.

I think you need to give specific examples, op. Please do so I can avoid saying anything that could be construed as a vague insult :-).

I'm not sure that being working class or middle class has anything to do with it. Some people are just plain rude, others are tactless and don't think before opening their mouths. I daresay most of us have trodden on the toes of others at times.

So, OP, you commented a few dozen times on the housewife thread, saying the exact same thing and being extremely offensive about women who choose not to work. Other posters got fed up and told you so. You had no rebuttal, so started a whole new thread about the subtlety of middle class insults.

I am in awe. You’d prefer to have been sworn at, I take it?

Surely the whole point of an insult is to annoy you. It's all just putting people in their place.

There has to be something between "everything's great" and "fuck off". So telling someone they are "delightful" is just of way of saying they are being hard work. If you don't like anyone pointing out your flaws, don't air them.

@Stravaig it depends on the scenario -

Alan Clark describing Heseltine as “A man who bought all his own furniture” is funny, not particularly abusive, partly because it highlights the snobbery and value system of the speaker.

Or Oscar Wilde’s (Irish) famous description of fox hunting as “the unspeakable in pursuit of the inedible”.

You’re conflating an old culture with a complex sophisticated use of language which everyone is part of - and class, which it’s really nothing to do with.

@MeSanniesareBrannies This is not a thread about a thread.
And what you said is not true, I was far more nuanced and said people need challenges in their lives. That can be found outside jobs, but not simply watching Netflix and taking the dog for a walk every day.

@Envoitrevisage

I am fascinated by the way mumsnet seems to think these things are class related. I know what you mean, but it’s never occurred to me that it’s a middle, or any other, class thing to do.

That was my thought too! I've heard it from all strata of class, it isn't limited to 'middle classes'!

@TatianaBis Alan Clarks comment displayed his raging snobbery and it was meant to be an insult.

[quote AllThePogs]@TatianaBis Alan Clarks comment displayed his raging snobbery and it was meant to be an insult.[/quote]
Which is precisely what I said if you read my post.

@TatianaBis you said it was funny and not particularly abusive. I disagree. It was very abusive. He was saying he is not one of us and does not belong.

I was far more nuanced and said people need challenges in their lives.

So, a passive aggressive insult about how you think their life is insufficient...? 😂

Oh, so this absolutely is a thread about a thread?!

Going to go over and have a look at the other thread, which I’d ignored up until now, for very obvious reasons.

@AllThePogs Your comments are still on that thread in black and white, they were not nuanced at all and were incredibly repetitive. You were, to use an MN phrase, ‘banging on’.

Based on the timing of when you began this thread and the timing of when you began your complaints regarding middle class snobbery on that one, this is rather clearly a TAAT. To state that it isn’t is disingenuous, at best.

If someone on MN said they thought I was thick, MN would delete the comment for personal insult. If they use a passive-aggressive insult that is worse, they get away with it.

Are you complaining about people insulting you or about the MN moderation policy?

@AllThePogs

Yes like that so-called MN stock phrase - Did you mean to be so rude?

If I was asked that I would just say yes.

I don’t think “did you mean to be so rude” is that much of an insult. I’ve never said it, but I think it’s a fine response to someone being rude to you in a situation (like at work) where you can’t respond how you might otherwise like.

If your answer would be yes, then why are you being rude?

FWIW, Alan Clark didn't say that about Heseltine, he was quoting Michael Joplin, and he noted that it was 'snobby'.

'Jopling'.

[quote AllThePogs]@TatianaBis you said it was funny and not particularly abusive. I disagree. It was very abusive. He was saying he is not one of us and does not belong.[/quote]
If describing a wealthy powerful man as one who “bought all his own furniture” is “very abusive” what words are there left to describe genuinely very abusive insults?

@midsomermurderess

FWIW, Alan Clark didn't say that about Heseltine, he was quoting Michael Joplin, and he noted that it was 'snobby'.

I’d forgotten he was quoting Jopling, it was such a long time ago now.

[quote AllThePogs]@TatianaBis Alan Clarks comment displayed his raging snobbery and it was meant to be an insult.[/quote]
Clark himself was nouveau. They can't help it....