Boris - new low

[daimbarsatemydogsbone]

Obviously he's running scared from his own side as well and Labour and the excellent contribution from Ian Blackford - no doubt Dennis Skinner would have done the same if still an MP.

However, there was no need for Johnson to stoop to the level of more lies - this time trying smear Kier Starmer with untrue allegations about Jimmy Savile.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/60213975

'If I spend less than 10 minutes beating someone up, presumably that does not count?'

But beating someone up is illegal regardless of how long you do it for, didn't you know?

Eating and drinking at work wasn't, although lines were crossed hence the Met investigation and resignations. I don't dispute they should have had someone telling them a party at 1am was not allowed, I do dispute that any workplace gathering in staff areas was illegal. We'll have to wait and see..

@JaniieJones - the Tories have changed the classification for unemployment figures so it appears more are in work, whereas it is the opposite.

@Peregrina

I can answer this for you jgw1:

If singing happy birthday and having cake indoors was fine, why did Boris Johnson deny it to millions of children?

Children are not working. Only gatherings at work allowed.

Is he more important than them? Or less able to stick to rules?

In his own mind, yes and the rules don't apply to him.

But if singing happy birthday and eating cake is work, then children are working when they sing happy birthday and eat cake surely?

Are children also working if they are drinking beer?

@JaniieJones

'If I spend less than 10 minutes beating someone up, presumably that does not count?'

But beating someone up is illegal regardless of how long you do it for, didn't you know?

Eating and drinking at work wasn't, although lines were crossed hence the Met investigation and resignations. I don't dispute they should have had someone telling them a party at 1am was not allowed, I do dispute that any workplace gathering in staff areas was illegal. We'll have to wait and see..

Please can you quote the part in the covid regulations that said you could have parties for 10minutes @JaniieJones

What baffles me is why so many parents did not let their children have these 10 minute parties.
How long between one 10 minute party does one have to wait until one was allowed the next one?

@JaniieJones

'Eating while at work is often necessary. In general NHS staff can't eat their food in isolation at their workstations'

Of course and that is my point. Eating at work is necessary and allowed. Whether its pizza cake or a sausage roll. Again, lines were crossed with the 1am thing I agree hence the resignations.

'What has Boris actually done right - I can’t think of anything??'

Furlough, vaccine roll out (no, it wasn't done all by the nhs without gov actually in charge of it), jobs, the economy, freedom day July despite Starmer saying the 'Johnson variant' would cause devastation if we opened up (it didn't), allowing Christmas etc to go ahead without restrictions despite Scotland and Wales panicking and imposing unnecessary restrictions..

Eating at work was allowed. Getting together to do so wasn't. And you know it. Why do you keep repeating this when you know perfectly well what the law said, not least because it's been quoted to you several times?

You certainly can't claim that Johnson has got the economy right. It's performing badly, not least because several billion pounds was totally wasted. Nor can you say Christmas was an unalloyed triumph with deaths currently running at an average of over 2000 a week. And that's before you get started on the PPE shambles, care homes, high death rates throughout, Paterson, Peppa Pig, food for children and all the other shameful failures.

The number of payroll employees was also up by 207,000 between August and September to a record 29.2 million.This was 122,000 higher than levels seen before the pandemic struck in February 2020

More people 'on the payroll' yet fewer people in work, contrary to what the Big Liar claimed in Parliament.

How can that be? Could it be due to the hundreds of thousands of small businesses which were forced to close because of the unfair distribution of grants and furlough payments?

'Nor can you say Christmas was an unalloyed triumph '

I didn't say it was a triumph. Someone asked what he'd done right, on the list was also the fact that he didn't bow to pressure to put us in tighter restrictions. That was good wasn't it?

You have to remember that Boris got the big decisions right.

Like

Who to ask to pay for the wallpaper his wife wanted.
Which wine to have at which party.

Furlough. In a crisis it had to happen fast. I'm not surprised fraudsters took advantage of that, if payments had taken forever to process everyone would have been in uproar. It was an emergency, mistakes will have been made.

So why not put some effort into recovering the money from fraudsters? Unless the fraudsters are Tory party donors, of course

@JaniieJones

'Nor can you say Christmas was an unalloyed triumph '

I didn't say it was a triumph. Someone asked what he'd done right, on the list was also the fact that he didn't bow to pressure to put us in tighter restrictions. That was good wasn't it?

2000 deaths a week rather suggests that it wasn't.

'2000 deaths a week rather suggests that it wasn't.'

Oh, so you'd have like tight restrictions over Christmas and new year, not being able to see your loved ones? Omicron is a mild variant he made the right call.

The police are investigating numerous parties, some of which Johnson attended, all of which he denied had even occurred.
There is concrete evidence of copious amounts of alcohol.
There are even hints that drugs may be involved.
10 minutes of eating cake, if you really believe that humongous liar, is the very least of it!

The issue is not whether he did, or did not, consume a slice of bloody cake and you know it!

JaniieJones Read this re jobs

www.bbc.co.uk/news/60245483

Boris Johnson makes incorrect claim on jobs

We certainly didn't know at the time that Omincron would turn out to be milder or that it would go and drive out the Delta variant, which it appears to have done.

@JaniieJones

'2000 deaths a week rather suggests that it wasn't.'

Oh, so you'd have like tight restrictions over Christmas and new year, not being able to see your loved ones? Omicron is a mild variant he made the right call.

I wonder how many deaths due to Omicron would have been 'enough' to think we should have tightened the rules at Christmas?

2000 seems acceptable to you.
3000?
5000?
10,000?

How do you balance deaths vs the opening of the economy?

Second - people DID alter their behaviour despite there being few restrictions. People didn't need to be told that it would not be a good idea to mix much so there was less mixing than there would have been.

@JaniieJones

[https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/employmentintheuk/latest]]

Total hours worked decreased slightly compared with the previous three-month period and are still below pre-coronavirus pandemic levels, despite the loosening of coronavirus (COVID-19) restrictions.

The UK employment rate was estimated at 75.5%, 1.1 percentage points lower than before the coronavirus pandemic (December 2019 to February 2020), but 0.2 percentage points higher than the previous three-month period (June to August 2021).

The UK unemployment rate was estimated at 4.1%, 0.1 percentage points higher than before the pandemic, but 0.4 percentage points lower than the previous three-month period.

The UK economic inactivity rate was estimated at 21.3%, 1.0 percentage point higher than before the pandemic, and 0.2 percentage points higher than the previous three-month period.

So employment down, unemployment up and economic inactivity higher than before the pandemic.

I can do GDP next if you want

[quote cakeorwine]@JaniieJones

[https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/employmentintheuk/latest]]

Total hours worked decreased slightly compared with the previous three-month period and are still below pre-coronavirus pandemic levels, despite the loosening of coronavirus (COVID-19) restrictions.

The UK employment rate was estimated at 75.5%, 1.1 percentage points lower than before the coronavirus pandemic (December 2019 to February 2020), but 0.2 percentage points higher than the previous three-month period (June to August 2021).

The UK unemployment rate was estimated at 4.1%, 0.1 percentage points higher than before the pandemic, but 0.4 percentage points lower than the previous three-month period.

The UK economic inactivity rate was estimated at 21.3%, 1.0 percentage point higher than before the pandemic, and 0.2 percentage points higher than the previous three-month period.

So employment down, unemployment up and economic inactivity higher than before the pandemic.

I can do GDP next if you want[/quote]
But the number of employees on payroll is up, and that is clearly the most important thing.

I do wonder where Wendy from the other thread is, she wouldn't like this kind of dishonest posting!

I do wonder where Wendy from the other thread is, she wouldn't like this kind of dishonest posting!

I expect she’s resigned.

This is how the Covid rule breakers now feel.

Reading some posters tying themselves in knots trying to defend the indefensible would be funny if it weren’t so important.

Forget the cake. Your hero lied to Parliament then threw a dead cat on the table at PMQs, protected by Parliamentary privilege, obviously, in a blatant attempt at distraction.
Despicable man.
Why are these people so happy to support this shameless individual?

Look we all know that party gate is a remainer plot !

'wonder how many deaths due to Omicron would have been 'enough' to think we should have tightened the rules at Christmas?'

You're seriously suggesting they should have tightened the rules at Christmas?

I think what they do is look at data and modelling. So, for example Christmas 2020 pre vaccines and with the massive spike rules were tightened (which, iirc many on mn were furious about and annnonced they would ignore anyway) and even so deaths and hospitalisations soared. This year the data showed the vaccines would hold the surge as long as people were boosted, hence the successful 'get boosted' drive. It was the right call, as was freedom day in July.

'Forget the cake. Your hero lied to Parliament then threw a dead cat on the table at PMQs'

More sneering. He isn't my hero, if he resigns he resigns my point on all threads has always been we need stability in the covid recovery stage not leadership contests. Imo the workplace gatherings weren't illegal, but the Met will decide. Imo he's done better than the ragtag opposition could ever have hoped to.

Just off to have coffee and cake (or attend a party as some call it)

You're seriously suggesting they should have tightened the rules at Christmas

People tightened the rules themselves without being forced to.

There was less mixing, less people going to family events and less people going to nightclubs, restaurants, shops and pubs. People could read the news and they decided to reduce gathering.

This cost businesses money.

However, as there was no legal enforcement, businesses couldn't claim compensation or furlough. They had to suck it up - and this has come at a price.

I do think that we should have tightened things up. It didn't need to be a full lockdown but it should have been more than we did.

Omicron is milder - but we have still seen a lot of deaths. And the Christmas period is a time for mixing.

We won't know what would have happened if there had been stricter rules. Would we have seen fewer deaths now?